Audio only:
In this episode Trent and his wife Laura discuss their recent cancer diagnosis, what they’ve learned spiritually from this trial, and how you can help them.
Transcription:
Trent:
I’m not going to sugarcoat it. I put cancer in the thumbnail and that’s what we have. We have a cancer diagnosis. Not me though, but for my wife Laura. And we wanted to share today just what we are going through, the story behind what happened, what we’ve learned from this, especially spiritually, what we’ve learned from all of this, and then finally how you guys can just help us out as we’re going through this difficult time. So when it comes to cancer, it’s particular kind starts with letter B. It’s my favorite body part of yours, frankly. Brain. Brain
Laura:
Never gets old. That joke never gets old
Trent:
Brain cancer. We’ve been spiritually attacked. We’ve had to record this four times.
Laura:
It’s our fourth time
Trent:
Recording because the mic doesn’t work or this or that. There’s a lot of attacks. There’s a lot of attacks, but I think there’s also a lot of good that comes from it. And so we wanted to talk about that today. So why don’t we just start with just how this happened.
Laura:
Yeah. I was telling my friends earlier and Trent and the first three times that I’ve recorded that the most insulting part of all of this is will be when I mention that I brain cancer to people and they’re like, that checks out. And I’m like, I don’t have any symptoms, though it was found incidentally. They’re like, okay,
Trent:
But no, that’s the thing.
Laura:
Not really. I don’t have any
Trent:
Symptoms, no headaches, no seizures. We found out it’s kind of like a homeless person story.
Laura:
Hey, that is my joke.
Trent:
You did it the first three times and it’s not my fault. This didn’t work. So
Laura:
It was for a study that paid $400 and you get a free health workup. And I tell people that’s like a homeless person donating plasma and finding out that they have aids and you have to tell people and they’re like, so can I still donate the plasma? And me, I’m like, so do I still get the $400? And they’re like, no, you don’t qualify for the study anymore. That has really been the worst part of all this is that I never got the hundred.
Trent:
Was your homeless person just the nanny from that old show?
Laura:
Times’s a tough, okay friend, Trisha to age
Trent:
12. This Trisha, why is Mr.
Laura:
Sheffield
Trent:
With dad? Me? She has AIDS and is trying to make money at plasma now. Don’t get any money from syndication. I worked
Laura:
For the union that got corrupted with the whole thing, darling.
Trent:
So what happened was through friends, we providentially were guided to an Alzheimer’s study. And then ironically enough, neither of us has Alzheimer’s. We have something, although I think that could even be worse frankly. But they gave us, we were going to get paid $400. You get a free workup, A free MRI.
Laura:
Yeah, we never would’ve found this, which is such a gift they think. And then we’ll tell the story, but just to give a quick synopsis of what they think the diagnosis is either a grade two or a grade three glioma. So gliomas come in different grades. The first one is basically a benign, but it happens more in children, better prognosis. Grade twos and threes progress to grade four, and a grade four is a death sentence. So we are really grateful that we are hoping that we caught this early.
Trent:
We keep hoping on the rung. It’s not even grade one. We start with grade zero, which would be a smudge on the MR mri. We’re like maybe it’s a smudge.
Laura:
Maybe this is, yeah, cartilage. I told one of the neurosurgeons in my appointment, I did jiujitsu once and I fell hard. He’s like, that is not what this is. You have brain cancer. This is not because you were a klutz and you tried jujitsu once.
Trent:
This is not like a taco shop where we accidentally got your order wrong. Oh, I’m sorry. You wanted the refried beans on the regular beans. My mistake.
Laura:
Oh, I’m sorry. Now you’re dead.
Trent:
No, it’s so first hoping for smudge, then hoping for grade one or focal cortical dysplasia. And then now it’s like we’re hoping it’s, it’s still grade too hoping and doesn’t come
Laura:
Back. We will not know though until pathology is back after my surgery, which we’ll get to. So basically the story begins with my friend Sarah who had four children and then a gap in her children. And then she had three young children all in a row in her early forties, which all children are blessings. Catholic disclaimer, but that’s very hard. And so when she was pregnant with her third, I sent her money. I don’t remember her sending her money, but apparently I did. And she thought that I was nice and so she joined my
Trent:
Book club. She knew You’re nice.
Laura:
Yeah, thank you. That was a jump cut edit. I was like, say the thing again.
Trent:
We’re not practicing boxing. We could do that
Laura:
Though. If you want my avian arms.
Trent:
No, it’s like all the energy is going up here to try to help you. I let
Laura:
My arms go.
So I sent her money, she joined my book club as part of the book club. We’re part of a well read moms group instead of reading pilgrim at Tinker Creek last year, which we were all burned by the end of the book list. No offense, well read moms, but we decided and took a vote to read a book called Priest and Beggar, which is about venerable Father Al Schwartz. And so she signed up for the study and then let us know about the study and Father Al will come up later. He’s who we’re praying to for the intercession
Of, so she signed up for the study. We dragged our feet on it. We did not sign up for the study this year though. We have had a lot of medical expenses and so we decided to do it for the free health workup. I burned my leg really bad on Valentine’s Day and ended up in the hospital twice. I was like, sure, I’ll take the labs that are free. You do a memory test, you get some labs done and you do an MRI and a PET scan. And the MRI came back that I have a glioma that was on May 12th that I got that MRI done on May 19th. They called me and let me know that I needed to go see a doctor. They’re like, we’re just a study. We don’t
Trent:
Diagnose. All we can do is tell you there’s something that looks bad.
Laura:
And I thought, great. Unfortunately, and fortunately my field of study was in neuro nursing primarily, and that was where I spent the majority of my time as a nurse. So there are discrepancies all the time on people’s MRIs. They took 1700 pictures. So I was like, sweet, it’s old injury, whatever. And then I read possible CNS neoplasm, which means brain tumor. And I ran up to Trent. I have a brain tumor to go and cry.
Trent:
And that’s like getting hit with a sledgehammer and then immediately you start with a, nah, I couldn’t be that. I’m sure because she’s the healthy one. I’m the one who spent much of our marriage making nightly runs to
Laura:
McDonald’s. Yeah, when I’m using root powder as dry shampoo, I’m like, does it even matter? I have a brain tumor. Why am I doing this
Trent:
Using that fake deodorant? That’s probably just flour.
Laura:
Oh, let me tell you. I’m like, okay, I don’t think it was the aluminum that did me under if
Trent:
I’m being honest,
Laura:
But
Trent:
You’re the health conscious one. And then this comes up.
Laura:
So May 19th, they called me and let me know the neurologist had a cancellation. May 19th is a Monday. They had a cancellation for Wednesday. Without that cancellation first available would’ve been middle of August. To give you an idea of how fast God has been moving through all of this, I see that neurologist, he confirms that I do have a brain tumor. He refers me to a neurosurgeon who I did not end up going with because he did not have any reviews online. And I’m not going to go to a doctor that doesn’t have any reviews online.
Trent:
It’s kind of like when you do Airbnb, a house will look nice and it’s just like new. You’re like, well, what’s the worst that could happen if it’s a bad house you stay at? But if you’re looking at brain surgeons like new,
Laura:
Don’t want to quite take the same risk. I don’t even go to a restaurant that has below a 4.2. And so yeah, I’m not taking a risk with that. So my friend Sarah was in Morocco at the time without her kids, so she was able to devote her time to me. She’s a connector. So she was trying to find people to connect me to that could get me a neurosurgeon to see she, because of that book by Father Al, father Al died of a LS. So she befriended this couple at her church who are really, really kind and the wife has a LS. Their names are Kelly and Jeff. Jeff happens to be a Catholic neuroradiologist. A neuroradiologist is just someone who reads the reports of MRIs basically. So he called me and was able to personally get me appointments to go see the first two neurosurgeons that we saw who were really fantastic and really great and top of the line
Trent:
If we didn’t have these people’s help, the first consult we would’ve gotten with a neurosurgeon even before, not a neurologist.
Laura:
A neurologist even refers you to a neurosurgeon.
Trent:
Would’ve been like August.
Laura:
Yeah, August.
Trent:
I think you would’ve gone batty by then and I would’ve come home and seen you with an ice pick thinking I could get it out myself.
Laura:
No, I’d fake a seizure. I’m all in. I’d fake a seizure. Then you get to sleep afterwards. You get really tired after seizures. So I’d be like, woo-hoo,
Trent:
I’ll give you the Alka salts, the al. Well you know how to do it real. You worked at a hospital. I wouldn’t know. I’m like, I’ll pop in. I’ll just remember the scene from Eraser, the 1996 underrated Arnold Schwarzenegger film where a guy has to fake a seizure. He pops in Alka Seltzer tablets basically. But no, I’m so grateful that our friends on earth and in heaven who we’ve asked help from providentially got us into seeing a neurosurgeon very quickly.
Laura:
So we saw those two neurosurgeons and they went vastly different from how we thought that they would go. We thought at that point that I had a benign tumor, a good friend of ours, after we found out about our first MRI needed an MRI with contrast. So he called that in for us to be done that night. So that’s how fast things had moved. I had already had an MRI with contrast done to take with me to the neurologist. It did not take up contrast, which is a sign that it is benign. So we thought it was benign going into our neurosurgeon’s appointment and we thought even if it was benign, they take it out. And the first two neurosurgeons recommended watchful waiting for us. They said, please don’t poke it unless it pokes you and it’s right next to your speech center and we don’t feel comfortable really operating on this at this point.
Trent:
You took that pretty hard.
Laura:
I did. Pardon me. I did. I was joking around with the doctor and I think he was like, is she taking this seriously? But it’s a coping mechanism,
Trent:
Something. And then as soon as we left his office,
Laura:
I lose it. This poor woman came up to me and consoled me like an angel. It brings tears to my eyes. She’s like, you have to believe in God. You have to trust in Jesus. He will get you through this. You will live. He was like Jesus, she needs to be there for her three children. She prayed over me. It was just truly an angel and I’ll never see her again. But during it, I think the doctor was like, does she understand the gravity of this? I was joking around about it basically, but then I lost it when I got out
Trent:
Of that. How bad is a brain tumor, Michael? What? $10 to take it out? Totally.
Laura:
I’m just a brain tumor. So then Trent took me out to eat and that was probably the most depressing meal that he has ever had in his life because I just cried the whole time and he was just eating unlimited meat at
Trent:
Everyone has different coping mechanisms. Mine is just to eat away my sorrows. And so surprisingly enough, that’s why I’m just still amazed. I’m the one who eats red meat, who uses real deodorant and somehow like, wow, I still am. I’m still here. But yeah, so then we are just,
Laura:
I don’t wreak because of my aluminum and I have four polyps that are probably unchecked, not going to check ’em out.
Trent:
So then we’re going from that and we actually disagreed about how we were going to move forward.
Laura:
I wanted to find a neurosurgeon that would operate. I had read some studies online.
Trent:
I see her looking up Expedia to Mexico City.
Laura:
Well, while we’re there they do mommy tummy tucks and some other,
Trent:
We could throw it all in for a package for you. So she was like, I want and I understand because the one with the tumor in your head, get this thing out of me.
Laura:
But he did not agree. And so I said, I will totally trust your judgment as the spiritual leader of this home because I am just that submissive. This is actually what I said and I’m making it sound like I didn’t say that.
Trent:
No. And I told her, I get that you’re upset,
Laura:
But I would like you to look into that. I
Trent:
Get that you’re stressed about a tumor, but I’m really worried. I told her interventions. There’s a reason we say it’s not like it’s brain surgery and then now it’s brain surgery. There’s a reason we use that as an example of things that are hard or not hard and that something could go wrong. That there especially they’re cutting around in your speech center, your cognitive areas. It’s not like
Laura:
It’s in my arm.
Trent:
It’s not just taking a tooth out. So I was just thinking, okay, if this isn’t that big a deal, maybe we shouldn’t bug it. And we start talking about the tumor. It’s a person. Some people will name him, which is weird, but it’s like, well, I don’t want to mess with him if he’s not messing with us. And it’s like, what am we saying here?
Laura:
I know. I’m like, this is not California. You cannot live here rent free. You get out of
Trent:
Here. We are evicting you. You’re getting evicted today.
Laura:
We’re in Texas now.
Trent:
Yeah. So at first I was really worried and then I went and I just looked at all the studies I go and just getting different medical advice online, trying to read studies that have words with 12 syllables in them. And by the way, I’m not giving anyone, we are not giving anybody medical advice. This is what we’ve decided. This is what we have decided. Do not take medical advice from us. If you need medical advice, use chat GPT. That’s what I would,
Laura:
Yeah, GPT has been wrong about basically everything at this point. It told me it was this benign thing that’s basically a birthmark. It told me that I didn’t have this other thing that I have. And so now I just Google it to know if I’ll live. If it says that I’m going to die, I am like Judge G Bt said that I’m going to die, so I’m
Trent:
Going to live. I’m going to be okay. But no, just going through everything. And I was reading a bunch of different studies and I just came away thinking, okay, watching and waiting. Once again, this is our story. You talk to your own doctor about where you’re at. I was just thinking, okay, well wait a minute. That might be good advice of Laura was like 70, but you’re in your mid thirties. The odds of this growing are getting worse or getting more ingrained
Laura:
Are high.
Trent:
They’re high. And so it’s like why would I even wait? And then okay, well we’ll work on it when it’s bad then. And also you’re younger, you’re in your mid thirties, so you have more neuroplasticity. Your brain is going to have a better ability to heal from a surgery than if we did this when you’re 50 or 45. So just seeing all of that, I was like, okay, I felt like God led me. It was good just to hear the initial things, but then to really think, okay, I think it’s us.
Laura:
It’s also good. Those two doctors were incredibly competent to know those aren’t our doctors.
Trent:
And it led us to another doctor who is the right fit to do this resection, to take out this portion of your brain
Laura:
Basically. So that doctor basically at the end, I said at the end of that long and painful day, we thought it was going to be benign it. We thought they were going to take it out, they didn’t want to. I said, what if I disagree with you? And he said that I would send you to this certain doctor. And he named the name and I was like, okay, send in a referral. He’s like, okay, but you need to get an MRI in six weeks and then we’ll send over the referral. So I’m like, okay, whatever. So that night I go home and I’m an emotional mess. And my friend Blessy, who is truly an angel to our family, she’s a very good friend and a very good person. She was diagnosed with cancer. And two days after her diagnosis, she found out that she was pregnant and that she went in for a biopsy, like a bone marrow biopsy. And she found out through that pregnancy test that she was pregnant. And so no doctor would take her case unless she got an abortion.
And so she obviously refused to get an abortion and she was even pressured by people that she really loved in her life and really trusted. And she did not. And she had this baby and now her chemo appears to be working and the baby is a year old. Her name is Lucia. And it’s just this beautiful, beautiful testament to life. So that night though, she woke up from sickness after her chemo and she said, Laura, do you need anything? I said, yes, I need a neurosurgeon. At this point, Trent and I had decided we were both on the same page that we wanted to operate because I wasn’t going to operate if Trent wasn’t comfortable with that. So I wanted truly him to be okay with that and for him to lead that charge. So she said, let me ask my oncologist. Her oncologist that she now was with was the only doctor that would take her case and he’s super Catholic and super wonderful. So he responded right away and said, she needs to see this doctor, which was the name of the doctor that the other doctor had recommended. I will text her right now and get an appointment with her. And he did. And she stopped,
Trent:
Which normally would’ve taken months, probably
Laura:
Months probably. And he said she’ll see her Monday at one 30. And so that’s how I was able to get an appointment. She normally doesn’t even see people on Monday. She normally sees people on Thursdays, which is just really a testament I think, and something that will go over later on. Things that I’ve learned too, like the communion of saints, just everything has been through the intercession of somebody else who is loved by another person. And so it’s truly been a reason to be Catholic for me. If the saints are more alive than these people here on earth, how much more can they ask for our good in heaven? So yeah, so it’s been a beautiful testament. So we decided to go with this doctor. She knew all the most recent studies. She was very comfortable operating on this type of glioma. She does that all the time.
Trent:
She the most experience,
Laura:
And she knew what MRIs to order we’re at a research hospital so they could order other MRIs that wouldn’t have been available at the other facility. Also that could show if I had certain genes that made that tumor more amenable to therapy and things like that. So it’s been really the place we think that I’m supposed to be. And hopefully we caught it early.
Trent:
Yeah, that’s going to be July 23rd. This should release a few days before Laura’s surgery. Your prayers, especially for that date. If everything goes according to plan, that’s when she’ll go in. Then I’m going to take probably about a week and a half off just to care for you. And then your prayers will be appreciated. It will be. I mean it’ll be a big recovery. I mean it brain surgery,
Laura:
They have learned through two MRIs that I will not need to be awake. They thought originally that I would need to be awake right next to my speech center. And
Trent:
They were worried your speech would be all different. Laura Lee.
Laura:
Yeah, we always say Laura Lee. That’s how I’m going to speak afterwards, but I’m like, I don’t have a problem talking. Trent wishes that I had a problem. If you
Trent:
Talk like that, I would still love you so much. I’d say you ate the whole wheel of cheese. I’m not even mad.
Laura:
I’m impressed. Really? Baxter,
Trent:
You sound, you would sound like a minion and then the girl squirrel from the sword and the stone.
Laura:
Yes, Merlin. Who’s in love with Merlin? Oh, you’re my Merlin, blah, blah, blah.
Trent:
No, and Arthur once again,
Laura:
I thought he was, she was in love with Merlin.
Trent:
No, well, oh no. There’s the big squirrel
Laura:
That, oh yeah, no, that’s
Trent:
The cute, the little squirrel. You’re my cute little squirrel. Yes, that’s right. But I mean that would be, I couldn’t even imagine.
Laura:
I do it. I would do it if it meant that I got to keep my speech. Every hater on the internet is like no, but I guess
Trent:
Can’t imagine just, yeah, six hours or eight hours of that away so they
Laura:
Can preserve it. No poke. I get to be asleep, which is really nice. And then also it seems like it produce something called two hg, which means that it’s probably an IDH mutation tumor, which is, there are more targeted therapies for that now. New drugs that have come out that are so expensive, which is why I’m so grateful for everybody who has ever donated to Catholic answers or to this podcast that they’re able to provide us with insurance because I truly do not know what people would have
Trent:
To afford to afford brain surgery and the recovery if I had to just do it all by myself. I’d have to rob a bank every day to pay for it basically. So the support of the podcast has been just so helpful. Thank you. That and thankful to Catholic Answers who have been able to support us, provide us with health insurance just to be able to do that. So yeah, so now we’re going to go into that. So your prayers in that would be really helpful. You want to talk about what we’ve learned?
Laura:
Sure. Just real quick though, the recovery will look like the first weeks are hard because my skull will be broken. So then up to three months she said my speech will be wonky even though it’s not in my speech center. She says it’s by it obviously. So she said that I’ll probably need speech that’ll be, and then it will take about a year for my brain to heal completely. So obviously that’s hard. We will know a lot more when pathology is back. We don’t know anything.
Trent:
So please pray that it’s still because there is a small possibility that it could be a grade four in infancy almost that you can’t, they used to, I’m talking, I know I’m an expert in this stuff. You feel that when you read all of these things they used to judge tumors just based on their size, but they can do genetic testing now to see
Laura:
How
Trent:
Aggressive they are, how aggressive it is not based. You could have something small. It just hasn’t grown yet. So it could still be an aggressive tumor. So prayers, well no more once the genetic results come back after the surgery.
Laura:
I’m a painful optimist. Trent is a melancholic and I am a saint queen and it is truly evident in our personalities.
Trent:
We deserve no blessings. This life. They’re like or we are sinners.
Laura:
It’s not a grade one. That’s how he’s been. Seriously. He’s like, we deserve nothing. Every day is a gift. And I’m like, they might’ve God even put me here. That was his choice. But yeah, there’s a very small chance it’s still a grade one and I’m like, how small? They’re less than 1%. I’m like you’re saying there’s a chance Samsonite saying there’s Samsonite. But yeah, so I am still painfully optimistic, but chances are it is not a good temper. But I’m just going to hope for it. Whatever I have learned did already say this in this recording. I’m sorry. I have learned that the secret to Christian happiness is to be hopeful without any expectations because every single time throughout this experience that I have expected something to happen, it has gone completely the opposite.
I thought it would be benign, not I thought they would operate, they didn’t want to. I thought when I go in with a Lord, I am open to whatever your will is, but help it be good news attitude. My day is so much better. And so I really am optimistic about it, but also trying to be very practical and prepare for things. So yeah, so I’m just going to take it one day at a time. The Lord’s Prayer is so evident right now in our lives to give us, to stay our daily bread, us day. And I feel like without this opportunity, I think all the time, did I actually have faith before this? And the answer is maybe, but I don’t know.
Trent:
No, I mean you’re carrying much more than I have in this. We’re both carrying this. I want to carry your cross. I feel like it’s your cross and I’m hoping you to carry it. And I still feel
Laura:
Some of the way. No, I would argue that those are different crosses and that’s really what I have learned through all this. Would you like to segue into that? Was that your segue?
Trent:
Is this a segue? It’s like a seg wave. This is a seg wave.
Laura:
I would drive a seg wave, but I don’t want to go off a cliff
Trent:
That happened to the creator of the Segway who
Laura:
Didn’t know that story. Everybody know that. That’s like everybody knowing that Dr. Adkins died of 300 pounds or whatever.
Trent:
I didn’t know that either. About
Laura:
Atkins. Now I looked disrespectful. I’m sorry. Internet. I really love Trent.
Trent:
No,
Laura:
I’ll ride the segue just so I don’t come off that or people,
Trent:
No, I thought that was funny. Okay, so well, I guess the biggest thing that I’ve learned, well I think this really, anytime you have trials, you have pain or evils in your life, it will be a test of faith. I would say it strengthened my faith, seeing the people who loved us, who were helping us, how God is working in our lives right now. I think the biggest thing for me as an apologist and intellectual type person, it’s really strengthened me seeing that moral evil and natural evil are really distinct things and that really points towards the existence of an all good God who is going to defeat evil. So natural evil will be like cancers, sickness, droughts. It is just natural things going wrong. Moral evil is when you can choose good or evil and you choose evil basically. And so here I was telling you, I remember when this first started, I said when we got the diagnosis and we’re scared and we’re concerned, I felt like it drew us closer together for comfort with each other. I would think that would be much more difficult if it was not a natural evil but a moral evil.
If you had been drinking and you had a DUI and killed somebody, there would always be a bit of resentment or anger towards the person who sinned. But here it’s just like nobody did anything. You’re super health conscious. These things just happen. And so I’m grateful more so that it was a natural evil and not a moral evil. And I think that’s the Christian life is thinking. No, I would much rather have the absolute worst natural evil befall me than to commit a mortal sin and reject God for all eternity or to commit moral evil. Whereas I think in a non-Christian worldview, it’s really hard to distinguish moral and natural evil, just bad stuff. But seeing no moral evil is this distinct thing that only God’s existence makes sense of it and conquering it and overcoming it. So that’s really because I know that there’s a lot of people I know you’re a good person. If someone brought you a triads an episode, a guy comes to our doors, like press this button, your brain tumor will go away. Somebody else will just get a brain tumor you’ll never meet. That’d be like a total twilight zone episode. And I know you would not press the button.
Laura:
My problem is I’m impulsive. So what I would hear was press this button, I’d be like, okay. And they’re like, I didn’t say what it was. I didn’t finish the sentence.
Trent:
You would press too much. You would not knowingly press the button. You would not knowingly, but I know there’s a lot of bad people, even if they seem good on the surface, there’s a lot of people, if push comes to shove and they were in your position, they’d be like, oh, this can go away and I’ll, I’m
Laura:
Going to share a story. You can edit it out if you would like to. I texted someone after this happened and I thought, I have nothing to lose. I have been praying for this particular person for years. Can I share
Trent:
This story? Yeah, go ahead.
Laura:
I have been praying for this particular person for years who has left the church who were at one point we were very good friends with this person and I said, I have nothing to lose. They are no longer Catholic. And I was like, Hey, just thinking about you found out I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Hope you’re doing well. And I thought, I’ve been thinking about this person, why don’t I just text him? And he wrote back, I’m sorry so much that you’re going through this. Thank you for your prayers, some administrative issues. It’s no longer he him, it is. They then. And I was like, okay, here we go. God put it on my heart to text this person and now is the time to be brave. So I was like, I really value you as a person. I cannot in good conscience lie to you and say they them when I know you are a man, but I really do value you and wish you the best. Basically he texted back and said, I’m sorry that the devil has taken control of your heart. Good luck, goodbye forever. And it hit me at that moment everybody naturally believes in God. And so it is just that He’s the one who conjured the devil in that conversation, not me. He’s the one who brought up evil, not me. So people either they choose who their God is.
And so what I have learned
Trent:
Is it going to be the real God or is it going to be yourself?
Laura:
And what I have learned in this situation is that Trent is truly the real deal. I cannot say the same thing for me because I have doubted a lot of times. And in that moment with that particular friend, it really was an awakening for me. God exists. It’s just what God we decide to follow. But Trent though, through every single moment of doubt I have had. And so when I thought it was benign and I found out that it wasn’t benign, I sobbed that night and I was really mad at God. I was like, we prayed for some suffering, but I didn’t want to die. I am 34 years old and I have three small children.
And he was like, Laura, we don’t know how many days we’re given. And I mean, how scandalous would it be if he debated people like Alex O’Connor on this problem of suffering? And he’s like, we don’t know God’s ways. And then he didn’t actually believe it when push came to shove and his wife has brain cancer. But I can say with full confidence, Trent actually believes what he’s telling people. And so it was really a moment of, wow, I married the right person and thank you Lord so much that I married a true believer to help me because it would be really painful to not have someone with true faith in the family right now.
Trent:
And I would not say that you’ve ever exhibited the sin of doubt. In the catechism it says, I think it’s quoting Cardinal Henry Newman, it says 10,000 difficulties. Do not make a single doubt.
Laura:
I really have tried to make sure to preface my prayers with God, I love you, but why is this? You know what I mean?
Trent:
No, it’s help I believe, help my unbelief. And you’re the one who is
Laura:
Caring this. But there have been moments of despair. And I don’t mean to belittle that. And so on my end, not on trans,
Trent:
But that’s why I feel vindicated also that I married the right person in that you have handled this courageously. And courage doesn’t mean that you face a situation without fear. It means you face a fearful situation prudently. You’re still going to be afraid. If you weren’t afraid, that would show there’s something like not quite right with you or you didn’t care. You understand the gravity of the situation, but you’re walking forward. And I think what’s hard a lot of times in situations we think this is my opportunity to be a saint. This is my opportunity to offer everything up.
Laura:
I felt that way at first. I texted Matt Frat texted us and was like, we’re so praying for you, really nice words. And I was like, thank you. And I almost didn’t want this to go away. I was like, no. What if this tumor, this is when I thought it was benign though. Then I was like, what if this tumor saves our whole family and then we’re great people and this brought us perspective to our family, but then I found out I might die and I’m like, oh, nope, don’t want this cross. What? I’m like, nevermind. Never. I get to prank.
Trent:
And it’s always hard. You think like, oh, I’m going to do this. I’m going to live life, right? I’m going to go skydiving, Rocky Mountain
Laura:
Climbing. Oh, if one more person sings me that song, I’m going to blow my head off.
Trent:
I’m going to spend every moment with my kids. And then they act like kids and you yell and I get frustrated. But then I just feel bad if people think if they’re in this situation, get a big cross. Oh, it’s my opportunity to be a saint. And the first time you don’t act saintly, it’s like, well, you’re not perfect. You’re not going to be perfect until you get to heaven. But a saint is not someone who doesn’t sin. They’re someone who, a saint is not someone who never falls. They are someone who always gets back up and asks God to help them up when they do fall.
Laura:
I find it very off-putting actually when I’ve met people in suffering and they are an understanding of other people in suffering. In suffering. And so why would you even complain about it? There’s nothing to complain about. And I’m like, because really hard and cancer really sucks. And so I don’t know to be able to share both of our perspectives where you’ve been a rock and I’ve been die. And so I think I’m grateful that we balance each other out for those moments.
Also, I have learned, that’s one of my things also that I’ve had multiple people tell me, which is kind of bold to say to someone that was just diagnosed with brain cancer, but here’s what I would do if I was in your situation. And I’m like, okay. All of them say I would spend time with my children, spend every waking moment with my children and people around me who I love. And I’m like, you think that’s what you’re going to do? Here’s what you’re going to do. If you’re diagnosed with this, you’re going to be on the phone. You’re going to be on the phone logistically setting everything up for you, going to sleep for a year. You’re going to be on the phone with insurance, you’re going to be on the phone with medical facilities for referrals. You’re going to be trying to figure things out.
You’re going to be on the phone as a coping mechanism. And then you’re going to get mad at your phone and you’re going to turn it off and you’re going to be mentally distracted. You are going to be so distracted. And my advice would be to do those things now that you want to do because God really does come a thief in the night. So if you have anybody that you need to make amends with or anything like that, get it done. Because if you want to spend time with your kids, spend time with your kids. I still do the things that I did before. It’s not like I’m like, let’s go to Mexico and enjoy family vacation because the five-year survivability rate is listed online, it’s 40%. No, I still vacuum. And so I just do those things with more purpose. And before I think I was always in a rush like go, go, go, go, go. I need to get home. I need to get home to comfort. I need to get home for longevity. I need to get home to rest, a healthy thing to do. And now I’m like, where was I always going?
There was nowhere to be except for here. And I truly think it took me a brain tumor to understand that lesson of just complacency and mindfulness to the daily moment.
Trent:
So that’s our story. That’s how the diagnosis happened.
Laura:
Oh wait, no, I’m not done. And then I’m sorry. And then also I learned, I’m sorry,
Trent:
You can do it.
Laura:
That redemptive suffering is unique to the Catholic faith. And that’s all because I feel like without redemptive suffering, none of this would make sense.
Trent:
You mean to
Laura:
Offer it up,
Trent:
To offer it up for other people.
Laura:
But I do feel like if the story of salvation is true, then all of this makes sense. If it’s not true, then all of it is really mean. And not just, but if you get to participate in the act of helping save someone than it is really merciful on God’s end to allow that. But that is uniquely Catholic thing to do. And I have been really grateful to be Catholic, both for the intercession of saints and for the redemptive suffering aspect of this.
Trent:
Colossians 1 24, I make up in my sufferings what is lacking in Christ’s sacrifice. Not that Christ sacrifice lack anything.
Laura:
That is literally the only Bible verse that I had memorized. And then he said it, and now nobody believes me.
Trent:
Nothing lacking in Christ except our participation, one Corinthians three where God’s coworkers, salvation is not just me and Jesus. And I think everything that we’ve been through shows that everyone, the communion of saints, prayers for one another, understanding the moral order of the universe, how this grand story, seeing this, there’s really two options I do feel like for people when they’re faced with this kind of awfulness. It’s either Christianity or nihilism. It’s just like this is pointless. It’s not that it’s mean, it’s that it’s it’s pointless. Who cares or no, there is a grand story and this is all the pieces do fit together even if there’s parts where we can’t fully see. And that’s where I’m seeing now that, yeah, I do feel tested in a way I’ve never been tested before. You’re right. I talk about the problem of evil, problem of suffering, and there could be more evil and more suffering. And I am not equipped of my own to face it. I can only face it if God helps me. And so I just pray and ask, God, help me just today, just help me today
Laura:
Also that
Trent:
What there’s going to be help my wife today, help my children today and let’s just live for you today. That’s all we have. I mean, I could die tomorrow. It could be you don’t know. But I think it is sad when it takes these kinds of things to help give you perspective on putting what’s most important center.
Laura:
And I would also argue too, that just suffering is relative. That is something that has been huge in our lives because just what we went through earlier this year, us being attacked online was truly really painful. And to have to sit in that. So that was almost harder than being diagnosed with brain cancer. And I think it took me a brain tumor to really realize that the things that God has given me are gifts and that they’re his not mine. And so no amount of suffering is too small to offer up. You might have a really hard child, you might have a family who is really hard to deal with. You might have chronic pain where it’s not like a cancer diagnosis. So people are less understanding and they don’t understand. And so
Trent:
All of those things, loneliness, depression,
Laura:
Loneliness, all of those things are important and all of them make sense in the grand scheme of things. So yeah, so that would be the redemptive suffering. That all suffering is important, that Trent is the real deal and that I’m grateful that I’m Catholic.
Trent:
No, you are the real deal. You have faced this very courageously, I cannot presuppose. It’s always like, oh, here’s what I would do if I were. You don’t know that until you’re, you’re in that situation. But I feel like you’ve handled this with a lot of grace and courage.
Laura:
Thank you very much.
Trent:
And I want to,
Laura:
I’ll deflect that compliment. No, I’m not.
Trent:
And I am not excited about the stuff that’s going to be hard, but I’m excited to walk the path with you.
Laura:
Oh, thank you.
Trent:
It’s vindicated that for me. So I’m excited just to just face everything together.
Laura:
I’m still a little sad about them shaving my head, but I’m a little more sad about them, less sad.
Trent:
I’m sure you will come up with something funny for too far with Laura Horn because we actually did record an episode. It was in the can before the diagnosis, so maybe there will be more out there. You never know. But yeah, you bless the world a lot and I have a lot of faith in God that you’ll continue. Bless. You’ll blessing our children. So I think the last thing that I’d want to talk about is just how you guys can just help us with all of this. And
Laura:
Did we say that we were praying to Father Al?
Trent:
Oh, well, prayers. So first praying for us, well, I’ll put a prayer in the Lincoln description because we were asking for the intercession of Father Al.
Laura:
We were able to procure a relic of his hair that we keep in our house and that I pray with over my head. And so we were praying for him for a miracle since he was the one. We read his book on a whim. It wasn’t a whim, it was divine intervention. It was the Catholic neuroradiologist who was befriended because of Father Al. And then we were able to get a relic. So we felt like he was the best person to pray for his intercession. And he has a venerable, so he needs two. So I’m like, alright, I’ll give you 50% of your miracle recipe.
Trent:
We’ll take any help.
Laura:
Protestants are like, ah,
Trent:
They and every person of goodwill I think will want to just offer prayers. That’s just the biggest thing. Number two, financially I think we’re doing fine on getting all the healthcare. I’ve had to cut back speaking this next year. I’ve had to cancel a lot of my speaking events. I need to be home just to care
Laura:
For Laura. And we didn’t get the 400
Trent:
And she didn’t get the $400 from her say I went, I powered through and still got it before you’re the full thing. So that’s cut into our income a little bit. So big way to help, if you just went to trent horn podcast.com, sign up to be a patron. A great goal we’re shooting for is 200 new patrons giving $10 a month. Even if you just commit for a year just to help us get through the next 12 months, that would be really helpful just to help us through all of this. But if you can’t do that, your prayers are even more valuable. All of that help would be very appreciated. The last thing, when you see me do episodes, I guess I’m going to take a week off to help Laura in the midst of recovery, but it’s going to go on for a year. So if you see episodes where I have deeper bags under my eyes and look more disheveled and worse for wear, that’s because I’m doing double duty at home and maybe coming in here at one in the morning to record or get things done, just pull
Laura:
The tumor card,
Trent:
Bear with me. I love that
Laura:
Tumor card.
Trent:
Oh well, to either get out of stuff or you went to the donut shop and those kids were mean
Laura:
To you. I know they took my seat at the donut shop. I’ve been trying to offer all this up and feeling like this great spiritual renewal. I went to the donut shop and some punk took my seat and I’m like, should I tell him that I have brain cancer? And my son Matthew, who’s 10, is like, mom, you need to let this go. He was like, will you offer this up for me? He said that
Trent:
I’m pulling the cancer card here. Do you know what you’ve done to me and my tumor make you feel real bad? So yeah, I do think though, yeah, that is of all the things for me to worry about. My cross is, and the same as you is the unknown what’s going to happen and we just have to trust in God.
Laura:
Yeah. I feel like this is, its beautiful story that we have about different people that have helped us and all these different things and there have been some really lonely moments and people haven’t responded how we thought in some circumstances and stuff. So I don’t want to belittle that or make people who are going through suffering that don’t have that think that we haven’t had that. But overall it’s been a really beautiful and intimate time with one another and with God. But then I’m like, but is it going to end with my death? You just dunno how it ends
Trent:
Or just, yeah, I would be, yeah, I don’t know. I love your personality. And so yeah, if that were altered, that would be hard. But at the end of the day, you’re always going to be Laura. You’re always going to be the girl I knew I was supposed to marry. And I still know that
Laura:
Means I love you very much.
Trent:
I just have to create a Laura Lee’s dictionary if it goes real south with the resectioning. So I am optimistic and I’m grateful to have that with you. And yeah, I think about what could go wrong and that makes me sad, but you can’t live that way. All you can do is think about where has God blessed me? And just rest in that joy and know that no matter what you face in the future, that joy will be there in the end in one shape or another. And you just have to ask for his help to walk towards it and marry a good person to walk towards it with you. Alright, well thank you guys so much for listening and I hope you have a very blessed day.