Catholic apologist Karlo Broussard joins Cy Kellett to respond to a thoughtful question from caller Colt about whether Protestants should be labeled as heretics. What does the Church really teach about baptized non-Catholics? Drawing on Vatican II’s Unitatis Redintegratio, Karlo explains how the Church distinguishes between formal heresy and sincere but mistaken belief, and why many Protestants may still be considered Christian—even if they reject key Catholic doctrines.
Transcript:
Caller: I’m kind of struggling with understanding the continuity, I guess I’ll call it. So the Vatican II document *Unitatis Redintegratio* basically says that those who are not, like, externally members of the Church, but are justified by baptism have a right to be called Christians. I definitely believe that. I’m just kind of struggling understanding, you know, the tradition, like the theological tradition. I’m just kind of basically calling, you know, Protestants and schismatics or like, calling Protestants heretics and then schismatics and so on, like the Catechism of Saint Pius X and so on, if you know what I’m trying to get at here.
Karlo: But yeah, all right. So in response there, I think it’s important that we understand what first a heresy is, and that sheds light upon who would be considered a heretic. And that, of course, is going to help us answer the question specifically. So the Catechism defines heresy in paragraph 2089 as the obstinate, and I underscore obstinate, post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.
So at some periods within Church history, you have people who reject certain teachings of the Church that would be part of divine revelation and need to be believed with divine and Catholic faith. And such rejection at those particular periods of history were indeed considered to be obstinate. That is, not only a consistent denial of what we need to believe as part of divine revelation, but a consistent denial that involves full knowledge and deliberate consent.
Because at those periods in Church history, within the universe of discourse, within those that were considering to be rejecting divinely revealed truths, which is what a heresy is to say it is not true, where were those who were. Who knew better, right? They were raised within that Catholic setting. They knew, they read, we could make reasonable conclusions that they had full knowledge that these things were professed to be divinely revealed.
And insofar as they are obstinately opposed to it with that full knowledge and deliberate consent, not only were they guilty of heresy, but they could be deemed, quote, unquote, formal heretics. In our situations today, we have Christian communities that have arisen from the Protestant Reformation involving individuals who have not had exposure to Catholic teaching as to what is to be revealed in some circumstances such that they’re not responsible for their quote, unquote rejection of these truths.
And so for some, we can reasonably argue that they would not be obstinately rejecting such truths of divine revelation that need to be revealed with divine and Catholic faith, because these individuals are the sons and daughters of these communities that have sprung from the Protestant Reformation. So their level of culpability is going to be lessened such that their quote, unquote rejection would not be an obstinate rejection of these divinely revealed truths.
They may say, yeah, I don’t believe what Catholics believe about that, but for whatever reason, their intellectual shortcomings, it’s possible they’re not responsible for that, given their upbringing within these Christian communities that are the offspring or products of the Protestant Reformation. And so I think if we look at it through that lens, it’s reasonable to see why we wouldn’t go around throwing out the label of heretic to anybody who’s within a Protestant community, say, precisely because we have good reason to think they are not obstinately denying some truth that we need to be revealed, believe to be divinely revealed.
Any thoughts in response?
Caller: Yeah, I guess I’m just kind of having a hard time understanding, like, at what point do they know? Because even, like, so many Protestant pastors, let’s say, in a particular town, I guess coming from my perspective, it’s just hard when you’re wanting to, like, evangelize and so on if you’re just going to kind of call them all Christians. And that kind of creates a spirit of indifferentism. Like, I know it’s not. It doesn’t have to be that way. But like, I think a lot of people misunderstand when you. We start using terminology. If you see what I’m kind of meaning by that.
Karlo: Okay, all right. Well, I do understand what you mean by that, Cy, where it would seem that by calling our Protestant friends Christian and our separated brethren, that perhaps might lead to a spirit of indifferentism. And I agree that perhaps for some in practice it may lead to that. But as you rightfully point out, Cy, that would not be due to the Church’s teaching that they are our brothers in Christ, assuming they’re valid baptisms, but it would be due to the individual who is wrongly understanding what the Church means by evangelization.
Right. So consider this, Cy. If let’s just say you’re my separated brother in Christ and you’re a Protestant, and I call you a brother, and I recognize that you are a Christian. Here’s one way in which that truth would not lead to a spirit of indifferentism, namely that I recognize what you lack as a Protestant concerning the fullness of truth, of life in the Catholic faith is a lack of all of the gifts or the goods that Christ has come to reveal to us.
And out of love for you, I desire and wish that you come to experience those goods or gifts that you lack as a Protestant. And that would in turn move me to want to share those goods and gifts in the Catholic faith with you out of love. And that is the essence of evangelization.
So that’s at least one among other ways in which we can see how the teaching that you are a Christian as a Protestant, although separated, would not lead to a spirit of indifferentism. Because I recognize you’re not just a brother, but you’re a separated brother. Separated from what? Separated from the Church that Jesus established in which subsists the fullness of truth and life that Christ has come to share with you and reveal to you.
And out of love, I want to share those gifts with you. And so nothing could be further from indifferentism than that. That’s the true essence of evangelization. So perhaps, Cy, we can actually turn the table and say the Church’s vision of our separated brethren is a call to not be indifferent, but to evangelize our Protestant brothers and sisters with the fullness of truth, of life that subsists in the Catholic Church because we love them as our brothers.
Cy: I’m going to leave it there because there’s lots of folks on the line.