In this clip, Cy Kellett welcomes Karlo Broussard to discuss the sacrament of confession and its exclusivity. Karlo addresses a caller’s concerns about personal forgiveness and the teachings of Jesus in the Our Father, clarifying the role of confession in Catholic teaching.
Transcript:
Caller: The understanding I get from Our Father of how important is that we forgive. And I have the possibility of understanding that what Jesus was telling the apostles was those sins of yours that you will allow yourself to forgive yourself for will be forgiven. But if you will not forgive yourself, if you hold on to those sins, then they will stay with you. so that concept is in there really strong. And the sins you loose are loosened, the sins you retain are retained. I’ve read that in different Bibles, and I don’t see what the possessive of the sins are that Jesus speaking of. And what I mean is he doesn’t specifically say the sins of who. What I’m questioning isn’t, again, the sacrament of confession. I hold that very sacred. But it’s the exclusivity, I see of. Of it.
Cy Kellett: Okay, that’s an interesting, take. What do you say, Carlo?
Karlo Broussard: So I think there’s an essential distinction that must be drawn, Steve, between the, you know, the sins that we forgive according to Jesus, and the Our Father, who. I mean, the Father will forgive you as you forgive others. What Jesus is speaking of there, notice this is a general prayer that Christ is giving to all the universal Church, the people of God. And what he means there is that we are to pardon our brethren, as when we go to the Father and we request his forgiveness, he extends his mercy. So too, when people come to us and request mercy from us, to no longer hold them, accountable for their offenses against us, we are to extend mercy to them and pardon to them as the Father has extended mercy to us. That’s what Jesus is getting at. But it doesn’t follow from that that we absolve the guilt of sin or forgive other people’s sins in the same way that God forgives us of our sins and in ordinary circumstances through his ordained ministers. And so that, of course, leads us to the text of John 20:23, Steve, and how to read this text, I think one. One problem, you admitted that you hold dear the sacrament of confession. One problem with that position, Steve, in the way you’ this is that it would run contrary to how the Church has read this passage for the past 2,000 years. So you’re standing on shaky ground relative to how the Church has read. And as Catholics, we are to always read scripture within the heart of the Church in light of how the Church reads Scripture. But I think even further, Steve, it’s problematic because notice something we often miss si in this passage, especially relative to what we were talking about, earlier. Go and preach the forgiveness of sins. Notice, Steve, that Jesus says, as the Father has sent me, so I send you Now, Steve, think about this. Did the Father send Jesus merely to forgive his own sins, as you’re suggesting, to not hold your own sins against yourself? Of course not. Because Jesus didn’t have any sins, right? Nor did the Father send Jesus merely to go and preach the forgiveness of sins or to just pardon people and say, hey, we’re friends now, right? No, the Father sent Jesus to. To forgive sins. As we read in Mark, chapter two, when he heals the paralytic, and in order to. And the healing of the paralytic was confirmation of his statement, your sins are forgiven. So in light of the nature of the mission of Jesus given to him by the Father, which involves the, absolution of the guilt of people’s sins and not just pardoning people of their offenses like we can do. And he’s saying clearly that the apostles are. Or to do the same thing that the Father sent him to do, namely, if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained. So when you read verse 23, in light of the context and what precedes it, Steve, I think we have good reason to conclude that Jesus is not telling the apostles to just go and pardon people of their sins like he says in the Our Father, or to not hold your sins against yourself and to sort of forgive yourself type of thing. But no, he’s sending them on a mission of the same nature as his earthly mission, namely to forgive sins in a real way.
Caller: Okay.
Cy Kellett: Does that work for you?
Caller: Well, that doesn’t. You inserted words, loosened. Of any. Retained. Of any. And. And so you To. Make sense, to make your explanation make sense to me, you put in words that I don’t find in there. I don’t find a clear definition of whose sins are being spoken of. And as far as Jesus saying, as the Father has sent me, I send you, I don’t see Jesus saying, as the Father sent me, I send you and you only. I’m not disputing the beautiful. I’m not disputing what the. What would you call it, Lineage, the line of apostles. And handing down. I’m not disputing what the claim is that I understand that, but I don’t. The only way I can understand how I read in the Bible about confession and then what I’m told by the institution of the Catholic Church about confession. I see the difference. I understand between that two. And I’m trying to. It sounds like the Church wants to find a way to always have a monopoly, on this particular Sacrament that if you want your sins forgiven, this is the only way to do it.
Karlo Broussard: Okay, let me respond to that.
Cy Kellett: That needs a response.
Karlo Broussard: Steve. That’s actually a false assumption because the Church actually teaches. You might want to check out in the Catechism of the Catholic church in paragraph, AH 1452 and the surrounding paragraphs, the Church holds that it’s possible that outside of the sacrament of confession, an individual can be forgiven of the guilt of their sin, whether venial or mortal, and with regard to mortal sin, the mortal guilt on condition that one have perfect contrition. But what the Church has always taught regarding the sacrament of confession is that this is the ordinary means. So inasmuch Steve, as Christ reveals to us and gives us the gift of the sacrament, those to whom it is revealed, namely those who fall into mortal sin, and to those to whom it is revealed, they are bound by the sacrament. But as the Catechism elsewhere states, God is not bound by the sacraments. So to say that this is the only way in order to receive the forgiveness of sins in an absolute sense, in the manner of if you don’t go to confession, you’re not going to get your sins forgiven, you’re automatically going to hell or something, that would be a false understanding. And then finally, Steve, I understand where you’re coming from with regard to the exclusivity of this power being given only to the apostles. But I think here we have to take into consideration, like in Matthew 18:18, he’s given that command to bind and loose to the apostles alone. And that’s language that was given to those in higher ranks in the Jewish tradition. Here Jesus is speaking to the apostles alone. He doesn’t breathe the Holy Spirit on anybody else in the way that he breathes on these apostles in the upper room. He doesn’t tell anybody else. if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained. Jesus doesn’t say that in the Our Father side. Jesus doesn’t command me to say I can retain your sin. He doesn’t say that in the Our Father, but he does say it here in John 20:23 in reference with regard to the apostles alone, thus indicating that the apostles alone have this authority to forgive or retain.
Cy Kellett: Thanks, Steve. Thank you very, very much for that call. We do appreciate it. So I wasn’t given, as a lay Christian, the power to, to retain, to retain other people’s sins.
Karlo Broussard: That’s a key aspect because I could see if Jesus had only said, if you forgive sins of any, they’re forgiven. And then you read the Our Father, we pray that God would forgive us our debts or our trespasses as we forgive others. That would be a pretty darn good argument to undermine our reading of John 20:23. But Jesus doesn’t stop just with forgiving. He also gives them the authority to hold bound or to retain.
Cy Kellett: Right.
Karlo Broussard: So that implies that they have this judgment to forgive or to this authority to make a judgment to forgive or retain, which implies verbal confession.
Cy Kellett: Thanks, Carlo.
Karlo Broussard: Thank you. Si.