Cy Kellett welcomes Tom Nash to discuss with a mother, the supposed work of the Holy Spirit.
Transcript:
Caller: My son left the Catholic Church four years ago.
Caller: He first, like, met some Baptist people and, you know, started criticizing, oh, Catholics don’t read the Bible. You worship Mary, all the usual. She was talking about, you know, oh, it’s the Holy Spirit moving. And I’m just like, what is the role of the Holy Spirit? Because I feel like the Holy Spirit took him away. Oh, because he believes he’s right. You know what I’m saying? So, like, it was just. It was interesting. Like, how does that work in the other way? Because I want us all to be one also. So that’s kind of my take on it.
Cy Kellett: What would you say to that, Tom?
Caller: How does the Spirit play in it? The other way?
Tom Nash: Yeah, I would say to him, how. Ask your son, Janet. How is he convinced that he is following the Holy Spirit? Not that maybe he grew deeper in his faith in some sense, but that he has separated himself from the church, which has existed for 2000 years and gone into a communion of people, an ecclesial communion, a group of people who have only existed since the 1500s. I mean, the Baptists are a derivation of John Calvin. So one can look to the Bible, right, and say, I am following the Holy Spirit, et cetera. But what, again, I think going back and saying, what kind of a church did Jesus Christ establish? He established a visible church with visible human authority so that the world may know that you have sent me, Father, and that they may be one. So that the world may know that you sent me, so that there is going to be a oneness and a principle of oneness. And you don’t have that in the Baptist religion. This is not to deny that they are our brothers and sisters in Christ, but that you will often hear that term, the autonomous local church among Baptists, well, that’s not in keeping with universal authority and unity that Christ prayed for and indeed sustains. I would say to him, we look at what the early church, and I invite him to come to our website. It’s available to serve him and others. 247catholic.com and I would say to him, with regard to the Holy Spirit, we. We know that Jesus said, remember, he says, receive the Holy Spirit. He says that in John 20, right, when he gives them the power to forgive sins. And I always like to tell our Protestant friends, hey, all of us are called to forgive those who have trespassed against us individually. But only certain people, the apostles and their successors, including the priests who carry on the ministry of Christ under the authority of the bishops, the successor of the apostles, Only they were given that authority to forgive or retain sins in general. In addition, what does he say and receive the Holy Spirit? He says, as the Father has sent me, so I send you again, as I said earlier in the program, maybe you didn’t weren’t on the phone for that. But how does the Father send Did the Father send Jesus? Matthew 28, the great commission all authority has been given out on heaven and earth has been given to me. So that’s why he commissions them to go forth.
Tom Nash: Of course they need to maintain the
Tom Nash: teachings of Christ baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, the Holy
Tom Nash: Spirit, teaching them all that I have commanded you and know that I’m with
Tom Nash: you till the end of the world,
Tom Nash: and that therefore I would say to your Son, if you’re going to be really following the Holy Spirit on the Holy Spirit’s terms, not our personal interpretation of those terms, and therefore Christ on Christ’s terms, not on our own, you need to be in communion, in full communion at that, with that visible with that church that Jesus established with visible human authority, which existed and was sustained long before any of the books of the New Testament were written, let alone compiled several hundred years later. So I’m thinking if we want to follow the Holy Spirit, we need to go with what Jesus said when he gave the Holy Spirit to his first apostles and said, as the Father sent me, so I send you receive the Holy Spirit and he sends them out. And therefore we have that visible unity for which he prayed in the upper room in John 17:20, 23. And we go forward in realizing that so identified with the apostles, with Jesus, that the teachings of Jesus teaching all that I’ve Commanded you, Matthew 28, 18:20 are described as they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching one of the same, synonymous. So that we always, always, always see that Jesus had a visible church and that he will sustain that church. And that’s how we can know that we’re for sure doing what the Holy Spirit wants us and being faithful as Jesus set it up.
Cy Kellett: Janet, I wonder if that’s getting to what you think your son needs to hear, or do you think it’s at a different place right now with him?
Caller: I mean, it’s what I want to say to him. Yeah, but I don’t know if he’s ready to hear. Like very early on I was like, you know, we were talking about confession. I’m like, it’s in the Bible, you know, was it Matthew there? Well then he was like, well, it’s not. That’s not what it says. And I was like, how come your interpretation must be right and mine must be wrong? You know what I’m saying?
Tom Nash: Good question.
Caller: I’m telling you it’s in the Bible, and you’re telling me that’s not what it says. Which to me is proof that the Bible isn’t enough.
Cy Kellett:: Yes. Janet, I got. You can hear the music.
Caller: Yeah.
Cy Kellett: I want to send you a book. It’s called the Words of Eternal Life, True Happiness and Where to Find It. I think you’ll enjoy it. And it might be one that you can share with your son. It’s an invitation to reconsider the Catholic faith.
Caller: Right back with more why Aren’t you Catholic? On Catholic ANSWERS LIVE.