In this clip, Cy Kellett welcomes Karlo Broussard to discuss whether Jesus claimed to be God. Karlo continues with details on the implications of acknowledging Jesus for salvation and the complexities of interfaith beliefs. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that challenges common perceptions!
Transcript:
Cy Kellett: Hi, Kathy.
Caller: Hi, it’s actually Kathy. nice to meet you. Thanks for having me on.
Cy Kellett: Hang on, I missed the difference. Did you say Cassie?
Caller: Yes, Cassie.
Cy Kellett: I got you. Cassie. I apologize to you. go ahead with your comment. or question for Karlo.
Caller: I was just calling to say that Jesus Christ never purported himself to be God, only the Son of God, and said that all of the children of the earth are also Sons and daughters of God. Okay, never did Jesus Christ ever put people in different religions and say that they wouldn’t be saved.
Karlo Broussard: Well, Jesus did say explicitly concerning the second part of your statement, Cassie, in Matthew chapter, 10, verses 30 through 33, within that context, Jesus says, he who acknowledges me before men, I will acknowledge them before my Father. He who does not acknowledge me before men will not. I will not acknowledge them before my Father. And so Jesus makes it very clear that the condition for being saved is acknowledging him. Right. Acknowledge. And if we make an act of the will to directly not acknowledge him, not profess him as who he is, then we will not be able to be with him in heaven and be saved. Now, that does not mean just because you’re not a Catholic or just because you’re in some, other religion, you’re automatically going to hell because only God can judge the inner movements of the mind and the heart to know whether that individual, who just so happens to be outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church, is actually denying Jesus. Right. Because sometimes somebody might verbally say, I don’t believe in Jesus. But given the inner workings of the mind and the heart, which only God has access to, it’s possible that they can legitimately be ordered to the good. They have a false perception of Jesus, and so they might be rejecting a false false perception of Jesus, but not the real Jesus. And of course, we leave that judgment to God alone. Now, concerning your first part of your statement that Jesus never claimed to be God, Cassie, have you ever. I will agree with you that Jesus never said I am God. Okay, but have you ever considered passages where Jesus says things that can only be interpreted as a claim to be God? Like for example, in Mark, chapter two, verse five. Cassie, I don’t know if you’ve ever considered this. Have you ever considered the passage where Jesus tells the paralytic that his sins have forgiven him?
Caller: No, that I have been having visions. I feel God’s feelings and God is pissed off that religion that purport to spread God’s love are separating people. He’s not what God wants. It’s not what Jesus wants, and it’s not what Muhammad wants either.
Cy Kellett: Okay, I’m going to let you respond to that.
Karlo Broussard: Yeah. Well, Cassie, first of all, it sounds that you’re a bit, You’re a bit disturbed and frustrated because of separation. And Cassie, I want to affirm that frustration with you. I agree that separation is. And division is not what Jesus wants. Cassie, Jesus himself prayed in John chapter 17. I pray, Father, that they may be one as you and I are one. Jesus wills that we all be united to him so that we can be united to His Father with Him for all eternity. Cassie. But the problem is, is that some people make choices contrary to love. And inasmuch as they make choice, contrary to truth and contrary to love, and they outright reject that truth and outright reject love, they cannot be united for an eternity with truth and with love. Once again, Cassie, you have to understand, and for our people listening out there, it is possible for somebody who is not within the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church to have a fundamental orientation to truth and to love. And their verbal rejections and expressions of their rejection of what we perceive, what we know to be true and what we know to be love may very well be misconstrued. Right. This is why we leave judgments only to God, and only he can judge the inner movements of the heart and of the mind. But at the same time, we must affirm that Jesus has proven Himself through His resurrection, to be the fullness of the revelation of God the Father, which is the revelation of love. And he invites us, Cassie, if you’re still listening out there, he invites all of us to embrace that love which ultimately is embracing him and embracing his truth. Because only in him can we find our happiness. For those who do not embrace him, we cannot have happiness. And that applies to those who come to know that Jesus is the truth, actually say no to Jesus. And of course, Jesus is not going to force Himself on us. He is a God of love. And so with love comes the possibility to say yes or to say no. That’s how God has set it up and willed it, willing that way of coming into union with Him. So hopefully that’s helpful for Cassie.
Cy Kellett: Cassie, left, but thank you so much for the call. Cassie. You should know, I mean, I don’t know how much you listen to the show. You’re always welcome to call and disagree with us. We don’t intend to be disagreeable. And I’m sure that you don’t intend to be disagreeable either. But I hate to hear you leave upset. I think, it’s an opportunity for a conversation. And you’re always welcome here. 888-318-7884. Our number.
Karlo Broussard: And I totally get Cassie’s frustration with division and separation. That’s something we all struggle with.
Cy Kellett: Yeah, we should be a little more passionate about that ourselves.
Karlo Broussard: That’s right. That’s right. But at the same time, we have to realize truth itself necessarily entails an opposing view. So if I say Jesus is God, well, then that entails the opposing or contradictory view of Jesus is not God. They both can’t be true, and they both can’t be false. One has to be true and the other has to be false. And so it belongs to the very nature of truth to have opposing views. And of course, we have to roll up our sleeves and try to figure out which of the two views is the truth, right? Which is the right view to hold to. And so I think we have to take that step back. For all of us who have a problem with division and separation, we have to take a step back and ask the more fundamental question, well, what is truth? And does truth necessarily involve opposing views? And the answer is yes. If you affirm this, then there’s necessarily going to be the contradictory negation of that Jesus is God. I affirm that to be true. Well, that necessarily entails that I do not agree with the position that says Jesus is not God. And then, of course, we will give our reasons for why we believe one or the other.
Cy Kellett: I have to say, too, one of the reasons we really want people to know Jesus is God. It is such good news. When you realize this is God, then all the rest follows of this is how good God is. Like, what a good God. To know that he would suffer and die for me on the cross is such a, I guess, a relief, you know, to know that we’re not just saying Jesus is God because we want to be better than some other religion. We’re saying that because that being the case, everything is good. There’s so much good news in that.
Karlo Broussard: And what Jesus does for us is he offers to us our ultimate perfection, which is union with him and his Father in heaven. And one of the means by which we achieve that is coming to embrace the truth of who he is, coming to embrace and accept the graces that he has to offer us. So it’s ordered toward our ultimate perfection. We are made for the truth, right?
Cy Kellett: Yes.
Karlo Broussard: And so in as much as Jesus offers us that truth, he’s offering us our own perfection. He’s offering us our own human happiness. And so it all gets back to that question, what is true? And how does that relate? How does that question relate to me as a human being? And why should I try to answer that question? And it’s ultimately so that we can flourish as human beings. And that flourishing as human beings consists in being united to the ultimate good who is God. And that perfect union comes, of course, in heaven and the gates.