In this clip, Cy Kellett welcomes Karlo Broussard to discuss the misconceptions surrounding Catholic rituals and their significance. Karlo continues with details on how Jesus’ relationship with ritual is often misunderstood and what it means for modern worship. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that challenges common objections to the Catholic faith!
Transcript:
Caller: The reason why they objected the Catholic faith is because it’s very ritualistic. You know, if they see the Mass or they see, you know, especially something more traditional, they would say, you know, that’s not something Jesus would want. He wouldn’t want us to be, you know, all this pomp and circumstance for him. He was a simple man, and he came to tear down kind of the old religious system of Judaism. So I just wanted to some advice of how to further that discussion.
Karlo Broussard: Yeah, well, first of all, Drew, notice that it’s just an assertion. So you could either A, respond back with just another assertion and say, no, he didn’t. Right. Or B, you could respond back and say, well, what is your evidence. What is your evidence that Jesus did away with all ritual? Because notice the assumption, Drew, is that Jesus did away with all ritual in and of itself, as opposed to even what we would acknowledge as Catholics, that Jesus did away with some rituals for the people of God and how to relate to him in their worship of God. So we believe that Jesus did away with circumcision as being necessary to be a member of the covenantal family of God. We acknowledge that Jesus did away with all of the other ceremonial precepts that belong to the Mosaic law that was restricted only for the Jewish people, such as the ritual washings, the sacrifices to be offered at the temple, the. And those are rituals that Jesus done away with because as the author of Hebrews says, In Hebrews chapter seven, I think it’s verse 12, the author says, with a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law. And he’s referring to the change from the Aaronic Levitical priesthood to the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedek. Consequently, there’s a change in the law. Which law? The law that belonged particularly to the Jewish people. All right, so we know those rituals have been abrogated with the advent of Christ. So the question now becomes, okay, well, did Jesus get rid of all ritual? Did Jesus not intend any ritual whatsoever to be a part of his New Covenant Family of God? And the answer is no. In fact, there will be some rituals present in the New Covenant Family of God number one, at the Last Supper. Drew, as you very well know, what did Jesus tell the apostles? Jesus do this in remembrance of me. So he gave them instructions to do what he did at the Last Supper. Take bread and wine and say, this is my body. This is my blood. And in fact, the Greek word for do this, poeo there tuto poete. The verb there, poeo means do. Or make. But it has sacrificial overtones in the Old Testament. Several passages in the Septuagint or the Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures where it’s used in reference to Aaron and his sons offering sacrifices. So a reading of that text is that Jesus is instructing the apostles at the Last Supper to offer the Last Supper as a sacrifice. Well, that’s a ritual. And Jesus didn’t intend for them just to do it once. He intended them to do it again and again. And in fact, Drew, you can point out that it seems this is what the early Christians were doing. We know for sure that this is what they were doing after the time of Christ subsequent to his ascension. Because Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:2, he praises the Corinthians for maintaining the traditions which he delivered to them. What are those traditions? He tells us in verses 22, 24, where he recounts the words of the Last Supper. So what were Christians doing? They were reenacting the Last Supper. That’s ritual. We’re told in Acts 2:32, actually verse 42, that the Christians devoted themselves to the apostles teaching. So they were listening to what the apostles had to say and doctrine. They devoted themselves to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And guess what? Elsewhere in the Book of Acts, we know they did this on a weekly basis on the first day of the week, namely Sunday. So Drew, all of that, that’s just a sampling of what we could find in the New Testament that there are some rituals and you could even throw in there in the mix. Drew, baptism, Right, Because Jesus commands the apostles to go and make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That’s a ritual. And of course, St. Paul gives a whole discourse and theological treatise on baptism in Romans chapter six, talking about how we die with Christ and we rise with Christ in baptism and how in that death with Christ we’re freed from sin. So those are just some examples, Drew, of rituals that belong to or with the New Covenant family of God and their way of behaving and functioning as the family of God. What do you think of that, brother?
Caller: I think that’s really good. I think also much to the heart of this issue is kind of the idea of people spending too much money and people putting up too much pomp and circumstance for Christ when he was a simple man. Now my automatic thought is to go to the lady with the ointment when she puts the oil over Jesus head and people start to, you know, say, what a Waste. Is there any other place I can kind of look to in Scripture?
Karlo Broussard: My first thought, Drew, if there’s any evidence in the New Testament, I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that would lend support to that. But a couple of thoughts do come to mind. Number one, God surely didn’t have a problem with all of the fancy, schmancy stuff and celebration and liturgical worship of him in the Old Testament, right? I mean, because that’s obvious. So in principle, God doesn’t have a problem with pomp and circumstance concerning liturgical worship. I mean, he gave instructions for beautifying his holy temple and his dwelling place, right? But maybe our Protestant friend might say, well, Jesus did away with that. Well, my question would be, what is the evidence, right? What is the evidence from Jesus that Jesus does not intend for Christians to do that for new temples in the New Covenant, namely, the dwelling place of Jesus present in the Holy Eucharist. And you’re not going to find any evidence where Jesus says, do not do that, right? So if they’re going to be Bible only Christians and state Jesus did away with pomp and circumstance for liturgical worship, then they’re going to have to give biblical evidence given their principle of sola scriptura. So that would be one approach, right? And then I would follow up with that, Drew, and just say, listen, all of the pomp and circumstance, all of the beauty, it is meant to express the realities that we believe and that surely is pleasing to the Lord that we would give, just like you pointed out and the woman with the ointment on his feet. We want to express visibly the beauty and the majesty and the glory of just who Jesus Christ is and who and what the Church is, namely His Mystical Body and all of the mysteries that our doctrines express and point to. We want to visibly represent those mysteries because we are human beings and we only relate to those mysteries through our bodies, right? We’re corporeal beings, and God would not have given us our bodies if he didn’t want to worship him in and through our bodies. And so, of course, that entails that we do what we can according to the means. We have to glorify the Lord in our bodies through visible, sensible worship. Drew, got to take a break. We’ll be right back with more with Carlo Roussard and meeting the Protestant Challenge right after this on Catholic Answers Live.