In this clip, Cy Kellett welcomes Trent Horn to speak with an upset ex-Catholic caller.
Transcript:
Caller: I am pro-choice. I used to be pro-life, but I am pro-choice economically. If a woman cannot afford it, this is my main reason. All right? If she cannot afford to raise a child, deliver a child, raise a child, take care of it all the way up till it’s 18, and I’m talking medical expenses too, okay, then there’s no reason why she can’t have an abortion. There’s no reason why she shouldn’t have that option. And if the church does not support universal health care or Medicare for all, what business does the church have being involved if they’re not going to help, even by, say, voting for these options or voting to fund a child? It takes a village to raise a child. Am I wrong?
Trent: It takes parents to raise a child, John. And of course, parents have to work; they have to interact with other people in society. But I would say that you and I can agree that parents have moral duties towards their children, and so sometimes par help to carry out those duties. Like if a father wants to provide for his children, he has to go out into the village and get a job and work. You know, it’s hard to just do it on your own. But I think that while parents do need help from the community to raise their children, we can expect mothers and fathers to not kill their children. They don’t need our help to not kill their children. They just shouldn’t kill their children. Does that sound fair?
Caller: Oh, you know, it would be fair. It would be fair if we lived in a fair society, a fair world, if people actually cared. If Catholics could get out and vote and say we want babies to survive, we want them to live, so we’re going to provide health care for children all the way up till they’re 18 or whatever, that would sound decent, but I still, I still am not going to agree with you because it is a woman’s choice.
Trent: Well, John, let me ask you this question. Let’s say a woman loses her job and she has a two-year-old, a four-year-old, and a six-year-old. She loses her health care benefits, loses her job, and she’s having trouble caring for this two-year-old, four-year-old, and six-year-old, and the two-year-old’s just frankly getting on her nerves. Should she be allowed to kill her two-year-old? Because you know what? We don’t have health care, Medicare for all. So should she be allowed to kill a two-year-old that she can’t care for?
Caller: No, no, no, no, no. And I see where you’re going with this, but should the Pope get up and say, Catholics, we need to do something about this, let’s vote for universal health care, let’s vote for Medicare for all, let’s take care of society, let’s see the abortion,
Cy: John. Actually, John, the Pope we have now does that.
Trent: He probably. No. John, my question is. So we agree, we agree it should be illegal to kill a two-year-old.
Caller: Where you’re going with this?
Trent: Well, just. It’s a yes or no question.
Caller: I’m not all about. There’s, there’s no, there’s no, no, no. Look, if the child or the fetus is connected to the woman’s body, it is up to her, okay? It’s up to her. It’s her choice.
Trent: So let me. Well, actually then, John, let me ask you this question. Let’s say, because you’re talking about economics to justify this. Let’s say a woman is super wealthy, like Kim Kardashian or something. She’s got millions of dollars, can easily take care of a child. She’s got millions of dollars. Should she be allowed to have an abortion if she wants one?
Caller: I would imagine. It’s still her choice. It’s still her choice.
Trent: So the whole Medicare for all thing, that’s just a red herring. That’s just to distract from the issue. You think abortion should be legal for any reason whatsoever.
Caller: You look at the reality of the situation. What rich woman wouldn’t want to keep her child? Okay, there’s a lot of poor women out there, single young women, maybe, maybe.
Trent: They don’t want any more children. They don’t want any more children. So let me ask you this to make sure we get your position right. Is there any kind of abortion you think should be illegal?
Caller: Look, if someone goes up and assaults a pregnant woman with a baseball bat and she has a miscarriage, I don’t know, you want to call that abortion? We can call that abortion. I guess that should be illegal. You know, that’s not really her choice.
Trent: Okay, so if someone kills a wanted baby, that’s murder, but if it’s an unwanted baby, it’s okay. So your position is, well, whether it’s wrong to kill someone depends on whether they’re wanted by others.
Caller: I think it’s a little bit more complicated than that. You’re kind of going into a gray area here. There are no unwanted babies. I wouldn’t call them unwanted. Every child is wanted. But the reality is you gotta face economic choices in today’s world. And this is what I’m trying to tell you. If Catholics really want the abortion rate to drop, you get out and you vote for something along those lines. Health care for children all the way up to 18.
Trent: Do you, John? John, do you, John, let me ask you a question. Do you want abortion rates to drop?
Caller: At this point, I’m so frustrated with the Catholic Church and everything that you guys preach and your hypocrisy that I could really care less. But I thought I would just voice my opinion on your radio show today. So thank you for…
Trent: No, John, don’t. Don’t hang up. I said no, John, please. Okay, now he’s still there. He didn’t go. Okay, John, why are you so mad at the church?
Caller: Mad at the church? I think I said disappointed. Okay, disappointed in the church.
Trent: What are you disappointed with?
Caller: Do I really need to go into this? Do you really want me to go into this on your show? I think we could have just called it good right where I was at. I mean, there are plenty of reasons why people should be mad or disappointed or whatever with the church. You know, whatever you want, however you want to phrase it.
Trent: John, I just don’t want disappointment and anger to weigh your heart down. You seem like a good person. I don’t. And you know what? I guess we do have to go to a break here soon. But here’s the thing. It’s okay for you to feel angry about things, and it’s okay to feel frustrated about injustices. And I would encourage you to seek out what’s good. I would tell you abortion is not good. We shouldn’t seek that as a solution to anything. But I, and everyone else here at Catholic Answers and the people who are listening, thousands of people, I’ll ask them right now to pray for you. Please pray for John and Lincoln. His heart is… You know, he seems… There’s disappointment in there towards the Church.
I’ll tell you what, John. I’m disappointed at the church right now. I’m disappointed by a lot of things. I’m disappointed by clerics that seem like it’s a day job they’re punching into. I’m disappointed by bishops, some bishops who are total cowards. And I feel like they need to step up. It disappoints me and it makes me angry.
But I will tell you this, John. I miss receiving Jesus on that altar. Now I’m not leaving until I get to receive him again. Because he’s God and he made this church and he made you and me for eternal life. And so I might be mad, but I’m never going to let that anger keep me away from Jesus, and I’m not going to let it keep me away from his church, even when there are people in the church that make me mad. Because if I was objective, I would see I am probably one of those people who make other people in the church mad. I know I do. I know I make people mad online all the time.
So yeah, just John, I hope you’re on the line. I hope you can still be with us. If you leave your email address, I’ll send you a copy of my book *Why We’re Catholic*, and I’ll pray for you. I hope our listeners pray for you and something for you to think about that ultimately what the main point here is: God exists. He loves you. He loves me. He made us. He made every baby in the womb, and he wants all of us to get to heaven and be with Him. I think we can work together towards a goal like that.
So if you’re on the line, give our call screener your email. I’ll send you a free copy of my book *Why We’re Catholic*. Otherwise, I’ll ask our listeners to pray for you so you can at least have a neutral attitude towards the church and not be saddled with anger and disappointment or anything like that. So I’m grateful you called in and stay on the line. And if you give us your email address, I’ll send you a copy of *Why We’re Catholic*.
So thanks, right back with more *Why Are You Pro-Choice* on Catholic Answers Live.