In this clip, Cy Kellett welcomes Trent Horn to discuss why some people view religion as a money-making business. Trent addresses the caller’s concerns about exploitation in faith and highlights the genuine service of many religious figures.
Transcript:
Caller: Hi. You question about why am I not religious? Yes, I find religion to be the biggest money making business in the world.
Trent Horn: Why, Jonathan, why do you think that religion is the biggest money making business in the world? What do you mean, that it has the most money or the richest people? What do you mean by that?
Caller: That people use religion to make money rather than care and do those things for one another. The evangelists that go out there and they use their, oh, you must give percents of your tithe or you must pay this much to be forgiving you for your sins or whatever it might be that that particular religion profess. And then even while I was waiting to get on the phone, you’re advertising for buy my book and here it is. If you weren’t being paid, would you continue to do what you do?
Trent Horn: Absolutely. I, I would want to share Jesus Christ and the Gospel with other people. I want to do it so much. I want to devote my entire life to being able to share the Gospel with other people. But in order to devote one’s life to something, to do something all the time, five days a week, as much as I can, I still got to put a roof over my head and I have to feed my kids. Does that make sense?
Caller: And why can’t you go ahead and live a life that goes ahead and cares for others, that is going ahead and providing a service and still share Christ as your knowledge of Christ? Who is Christ?
Trent Horn: Yeah, who do you think Jesus Christ is?
Caller: When we go to the Bible, it tells us that Christ told us to become one with God as he’s with God.
Trent Horn: Where did he say that?
Caller: Isn’t that found in Hebrews?
Trent Horn: I’m not familiar with that paraphrase. Jesus said to be, he says to be holy as your heavenly Father is holy. Or he said in Matthew, be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. Jesus wants us to have communion with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That’s why Jesus revealed himself to be the eternal Son of God and he gave us his church. But Jonathan, let me back up a little bit here because I don’t think this is a good objection to religion. Let’s say you’re right. There are, let’s say I agree with you. There are people who use religion to make a ton of money at the expense of other people. I would say, though, that’s a minority. I mean, if you look at all of the different Catholic priests and monks and nuns who take vows of poverty, you know, and other religions where people, you know, ministers and pastors, they’re they’re just getting by. They’re not rich. If you look up the richest people in the world, they’re not bishops and priests. They’re usually bankers or the guy who made Facebook. But I’ll give you there are some televangelists who are rolling in money. I’ll give you that. But does that prove that religion as a whole is a bad thing? Like, let me give you an analogy. Would you agree that there are people who sell fake medicine, like snake oil salesmen? They’ll, they’ll sell the cure for everything on infomercials and they’re not helping anybody. They’re just making a bunch of money. Just because there’s a few bad people who abuse medicine to make money doesn’t mean medicine as a whole is a bad thing. In the same way there’s a few bad people who abuse religion to make money. It doesn’t mean religion as a whole is a bad thing. Do you see the comparison I’m making?
Caller: I didn’t say religion was a bad thing.
Trent Horn: Okay, but you’re. Well, you said you’re not religious because it’s a money making business.
Caller: I find offense in the hypocrisy that I see in every religion that I’ve ever looked at.
Trent Horn: What hypocrisy? Wait, wait, wait, Jonathan, hold on. What hypocrisy do you see in every single religion?
Caller: The individuals that are in these positions. I’m not going to try and bash anything or anyone. Some of the best people I have ever experienced having a relationship with work, Catholic.
Trent Horn: Okay?
Caller: But I’ve traveled a lot and I’ve seen many different religions and anyone truly living the spirituality of their religion is normally a very, as you said, good person. They’re not selfish. They are caring for their fellow man. Because one of your advertisements talking about something said so many times that people think that that’s actually in the scripture. Right. Where is it in the scripture that it says when you’re in the service, your fellow man, you’re in the service to your God.
Trent Horn: I’m not familiar with that being in scripture.
Caller: Exactly, exactly. But is that not a Christlike trait?
Trent Horn: Well, Jonathan, I’ll agree with you that there are truths that correspond to what we believe that are not found in the Bible. I don’t disagree with you there, but so far I’m not seeing like, because I. Because I would wonder if you. Not just being religious, but if you would call yourself a Christian believing in Christ. Yeah. Would you call yourself a Christian?
Caller: Yes.
Trent Horn: Okay, cool. What do you. Do you believe that Jesus, that he rose from the dead?
Caller: Yes.
Trent Horn: Okay. Do you believe Jesus is God, become man, the son of God?
Caller: Yes.
Trent Horn: Amen. Amen, brother. So, I mean, the show, we’re asking you why aren’t you religious? And it seems to me that you are Christian, but you don’t want to have the label religious. But, but in the letter of James, it says about what true religion is, James 1:27. Because I think sometimes you think, well, I’m going to, you know, I’ll follow Jesus, I’ll follow Christ, I’ll be a good person and I’ll serve others. And this word religion, it’s like this poison pill that gets dropped in. And we associate that word religion with hypocrisy, money making, sin. But religion is a good thing. Religion is man’s response to God. Here’s what James 1:27 says. Religion that God our Father accepts as, as pure and faultless as this, to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. So, so religion is just our response to God. How are we going to respond to Jesus? And so what I believe as a Catholic, and I don’t know your, your background on, on this or other issues, is that Jesus came, became man. God became man to redeem us from our sins. And he gave us his church. He gave us a church so we could be cleansed from sin with the waters of baptism, that if we fall into sin after baptism, we can be reconciled to God by going to confession. You don’t pay money to go to confession. You just go with a humble heart. And God working through the priest, standing in the person of Christ absolves us of our sins. Receiving Jesus, Receiving Jesus, the body and blood of Christ. If we want to be close to Christ, receive the Eucharist. And so God gave us, Jesus didn’t. The Bible never says Jesus gave us a Bible. The Bible says Jesus gave us a church built on the apostles that would last until he came again. And so for me, yeah, why not? Why would we not? You know, let’s not think of religion as this poison pill with all these negative stereotypes. Let’s instead say religion is how man turns to God. And if we turn to God, why wouldn’t we turn to the church that Jesus Christ gave us? That’s something to think about. So thanks for calling, Jonathan. Appreciate your call. Here’s our phone number. 888-318-7884. A fascinating subject today. Why aren’t you religious? 888-318.