Evangelization, the Papacy, and My Journey of Faith (Interview)

Karlo:

Hey friends, welcome back to the channel. I’m so glad that you’re here with me. Today’s episode is a bonus episode where I sit down to chat with Catholic apologist James from the Divine Mercy Apologetics YouTube channel about a variety of theological topics, including evangelization and the biblical evidence of the papacy and things concerning my own personal journey of faith. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

James:

Hello, hello. Welcome everybody. Welcome to the show. God bless you all. We’re here for another segment of chatting and Catholicism. I’m here of course with someone I look up to Dr. Brusard. How are you, man? God bless you.

Karlo:

James, thanks for having me on, brother. It’s great to be with you.

James:

I’m very happy to have you on. I saw you smiling when you saw the intro because you and I were … Right before the intro, guys, we were talking about that particular verse in Acts 15.

Karlo:

Yeah. It was a pretty powerful intro, man. The music was very hardcore and moving and I just loved the images of all the pontiffs there. So it was quite nice.

James:

Yeah. I’m happy you enjoyed it, man. In a typical fashion, I always start every podcast or stream with a prayer. So if you’d like to join me in prayer, I-

Karlo:

Absolutely.

James:

Typically do one. Our Father and one Hail Mary, we get into it.

Karlo:

All right.

James:

Do you want to do the Hail Mary perhaps?

Karlo:

Hey, man, whatever.

James:

All right. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be rolled without end. Amen. Our Father who arts in heaven hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day, our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but liver us from all evil unmanned.

Karlo:

Hell Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed or thou among women and blessed is the fruit of though Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for our sinners now and at the awe of our death. Amen.

James:

Amen. Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Karlo:

As

James:

It was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be world without and amen.

Karlo:

Amen.

James:

So if you ask why I do three, or maybe you didn’t ask, but I’ll tell you why I do three. I was raised Melchite Catholic.

Karlo:

All right.

James:

And now I’m Latin. So I imported that tradition from the Melchites to

Karlo:

Men. Absolutely. Beautiful, man. I love the idea of cross-pollination, right?

James:

Yeah.

Karlo:

And allowing those different traditions to influence each other.

James:

Yeah, no doubt. So I’m looking at my phone. I actually have a bunch of questions here.

Karlo:

Wow.

James:

Yeah. Oh,

Karlo:

I wanted

James:

To be prepared, right?

Karlo:

Oh, it was questions that you have prepared. I see. I thought you meant your audience sending in questions already.

James:

No, no, no, no, no, no. I prepare questions. The audience knows they can write good questions and if I think it’s a good question, I’ll pose the questions.

Karlo:

Awesome.

James:

But just so you know, it’s not going to necessarily be theological. You know this already and the world knows this. Wherever you want to take the answers, take it.

Karlo:

Sure.

James:

This is the most I’ll be talking this whole show. I’ll be asking you a question. Take your time. Say what you need to say. Take it wherever you need to take it. And we’re very, very thankful that you are here and sharing this with us.

Karlo:

Yeah. I’m grateful to be with you, man.

James:

So I learned something about you. I did a litle bit of homework. I did a little bit of research. So according to various online biographies, which I’m assuming you’ve seen, used to be a musician.

Karlo:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah. How’d you get into music and what kind of music was it?

Karlo:

Yeah. So I’m a Southern boy from Southern Louisiana. I grew up live a few miles west of Lafayette, Louisiana. And the music I played was Cajun music. So kind of like Zydeco, Cajun, Southern Rock and Roll, all mixed together. Nice. And my instrument was the Cajun accordion. And I started when I was 12 years old, playing Cajun music, had my own band by the time I was 13 and actually recorded an album at 13 and produced it myself. Yeah. I love studio work, being in the studio, just jamming out. That was my happy place, man. And then when I was 16, recorded the second album, continued to progress in my career, playing in the bars and honky-tonks and the nightclubs and stuff on the weekends and pursued it quite intensely all the way until I was 20. And that’s when I gave up that pursuit to do music full-time and gave it up for the Lord in order to pursue theology and philosophy and apologetics.

Because right around 17 and a half, close to 18, my heart was captured for our Lord. My mind was captured for the truth in large part due to the ministry of my now colleague and good friend here at Catholic Answers, Tim Staples. I had heard his conversion story going from anti-Catholic to Catholic. And for some reason, by God’s grace, I was captivated by what he was sharing, which was interesting because James, I was not an intellectual kid, man. Just growing up, I was focused on pursuing my musical career in Southern Louisiana and doing my band thing. That was my identity. That was who I am, who I was. And I was not interested in intellectual educational stuf. So for the whole apologetics thing to capture my mind was sort of a divine invasion of grace and it just lit the fire within my heart. I think a lot had to do with the way Tim Staples presented the message with his sort of former Pentecostal flair and he was a Southern boy and so that captivated me, but my intellect was delighting in that sort of study.

And so I started studying informally, listening to all of Tim Staples stuff, Scott Hahn’s stuff, and it was even cassette tapes back then. I remember walking in and listening to those cassette tapes and I just developed this love for theology and I was like, “Man, this is really satisfying.” And eventually I developed a desire to want to do what Tim Staples was doing, traveling the country, giving talks and being an evangelist and an apologist. And so at 20 years old, I gave up my pursuit of the music career in order to then pursue my newfound dream and desire to be an apologist. And Tim Staples befriended me and he drug me along the rope, carried me along the rope for 15 years directing me, became my personal friend and then eventually got me in the door on board at Catholic Answers now, I guess 15 and a half, 16 years ago, something like that.

James:

That’s beautiful. Now what about your background? Do you belong to a Christian family? Were you guys Catholic? Were you guys non-Catholic? Was it like nominally Christian or was it like a practicing Christian

Karlo:

Family? Yeah. So we were Catholic. I’m cradle Catholic. My mom and dad were not practicing in my early years prior to like first grade or so. They actually were severe alcoholics and had split up with the intention of getting a divorce. But then by God’s grace, they both sobered up independently and they reconciled. And at that time is when my mom found Jesus brother and she was a tongue speaking charismatic Catholic man and it was just pedal to the middle all things Catholic. And so that religious sense was planted within me through the witness of my mom. And that religious sense was fostered and cultivated through my mom’s constant work in the church and youth group and choir, et cetera. And I had some very profound religious experiences, man, about 12, 13 years old that will forever be pondered within my heart and I’m grateful for those gifts.

Of course, as I grew up and playing music in the bars and then eventually in the nightclubs, that religious sense sort of got eclipsed and then it took God’s grace to begin removing that eclipse and a little fanning of the flame within, but that religious sense was indeed planted by my mom’s witness for which I’m grateful. And now, I mean, both my mom and my dad are faithful practicing Catholics. My dad, he has come a long way in his journey, but now he’s like my number one fan, man. He’s like reading all my books and watching all of my Catholic answers live broadcast. And so it’s been quite a journey.

James:

So you would say that Tim Staples is essentially the instrument for the

Karlo:

Reason

James:

Why you returned?

Karlo:

Absolutely. He was the catalyst. Now I had a really good Protestant friend when I was about 16 or so who befriended me. He was older than I was about four or five years older and we became sort of best friends. He took me under his wing, taught me how to lift weights. We played sports together. We did practically everything together, but he had an authentic relationship with our blessed Lord and he began to witness to me with that relationship and his love for Christ. And that was slowly beginning to work on me and develop a sense of like, why don’t I have that kind of relationship with our Lord like he does? And he would talk about God just sort of a natural conversation and that began to awaken within me sort of an awareness that I was not like that. And so it intrigued me.

But then when I heard Tim Staples and started listening to his stuff, that’s when my conviction in my Catholic faith became deeper and became real in my own. And that’s when I fell in love, really fell in love with our Lord and fell in love with him for the gift that he gave me in the Catholic faith.

James:

That’s beautiful. I’ve done about what, 20 or 21 sessions of this, right? What you just iterated is actually very close to what most people iterate. Something happens where they sort of return, right? The love that the Lord had given them in their earlier years, they would either turn away from that and return or never received it and have a reason to come to him. Secondarily, of course, we’re not pledged. So in the evangelizing of Tim Staples, because you wouldn’t be the only one, what statement or what aspect of what he evangelized really made you say, “Okay, I got to turn around.” For some it’s been the blessed mother, for some it’s been Eucharist. There’s always one thing, always.

Karlo:

I mean, I don’t know. I mean, as far as an issue goes, there was no issues that I was really struggling with, but it was more so the intellectual coherence of the faith. I had never really encountered too many Protestant objections like he was posing in apologetics. So I wasn’t like seeking the answers out, but through his ministry hearing those sort of objections and then hearing a rational, coherent Catholic answer to those objections, that was captivating to me. That was capturing my heart, that was capturing my mind and my intellect and my soul, just generally speaking, was delighting in that intellectual coherence. And it breeded sort of a healthy confidence like, “Yeah, I’m proud to be Catholic.” Not in a triumphalistic way, although I had to curb that a little bit and grow in holiness with regard to that, but there was a healthy confidence that was being bred within me and within my soul due to that sort of intellectual coherence.

And I mean, I do remember sort of the flair of his ministry and some of the Tim Staples statements that he would say like, “Don’t leave Peter because of Judas” kind of thing and just a variety of other things, but it was more so just generally speaking that intellectual coherence that was captivating for me. And then also too, another figure who I listened to a lot, my mom was listening to, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him, but Father Kenneth Roberts and he was a priest who did ministry quite some time ago and he was sort of a priest apologist and he did a lot of apologetics. And I remember learning from him concerning the papacy. The papacy is the one thing that distinguishes us as Catholics from all other Christians. And I remember that stuck with me and that excited me when I was learning apologetics through his ministry as well.

James:

It’s fair to say that some sort of epistemological coherence

Karlo:

Was

James:

Very appealing to you clearly.

Karlo:

Absolutely. Yep. Which was interesting, like I said, because I was not a kid who was looking for that. I was not wondering why, I wonder if the Catholic faith actually makes sense. I wasn’t thinking that. It’s something the Lord put in front of me on my journey and it just grabbed me and captured my imagination and my mind and my heart and I just fell in love with it. And through that means, through that channel, through that gateway, I fell in love with the Lord. Eventually I came to realize it’s not just the doctrinal propositions I’m in love with, it’s with the reality, our Lord himself that I fell in love with.

James:

Right, right. So worth asking, was Protestantism in any of its forms ever appealing to you?

Karlo:

Yeah. I mean, I spoke how I wasn’t really … Earlier I said I wasn’t really struggling with anything, but I do remember a time when I was about 17, right at the beginning of 17, feeling very dry at mass, sort of anger at Mass. And I actually remember telling one of my cousins one time at a family reunion who was Protestant at the time that if I were not under the roof of my parents, I probably would leave the Catholic faith. There was a moment where I was feeling that sort of experiencing that. I remember one event where my sister, I think we were at a retreat or something, my sister was like, “Let’s go to confession.” And then I said, “I don’t need to go to confession. I can just go straight to God,” kind of thing. And perhaps I may have had those thoughts due to the influence of my Protestant friend.

I can’t really remember because he wasn’t overly intentional about trying to evangelize me with his Protestant theology, but there was at some point some Protestant ideas began to seep within my mind. I was never questioning God’s existence or anything, so I never struggled with those issues, but there was a little bit of Protestantism that began to affect me and that’s when I encountered Tim Staples in order to begin providing some solutions to some of those things I was dealing with in my heart and my mind for that brief period.

James:

Right. And so we can gather that you never had a moment where you wanted to leave the faith?

Karlo:

Not formally. I mean, I toyed with the idea, but there was never a moment where I was like, “Yeah, I’m leaving,” kind of thing.

James:

Yeah,

Karlo:

Yeah. Okay.

James:

Okay. Do you mind if we can ask you your credentials, your formal credentials for the world to know, because it’s going to dovetail into my next question.

Karlo:

Yeah. So I have undergraduate and graduate degrees in theology. My undergraduate degree in theology is from Catholic Distance University out of Virginia. Prior to finishing with Catholic Distance University, I studied at about three other different undergraduate institutions in theology, one in Corpus Christi, one in Fort Worth, Texas. And so it seemed like I remember there was one more, but okay, it was those two. And then I completed my undergraduate work with Catholic Distance University. I got my graduate degree in theology through Augustine Institute through their distance track and I graduated 2011 is when I got my master’s in theology and then eventually I got my master’s in philosophy through Holy Apostles College and Seminary out of Cromwell, Connecticut through their online university. And then two years ago, I received my doctorate in philosophy through the Pontifical University in Menouth, Ireland, St. Patrick’s.

James:

Beautiful. Praise the Lord. That’s gorgeous, man. The reason why I asked is I knew the answer because I did my homework, but I also knew to ask because a lot of our modern day Christian voices online, they’re going to sort of polarize biblicism with philosophy, right? So I wanted to ask, and I think this would be beneficial for anyone who’s listening, what’s your view on the harmony between biblicism and philosophy?

Karlo:

Well, what do you mean by biblicism? How do you define biblicism? Just

James:

Like Exodesis.

Karlo:

Okay, got it. All right. Yeah. So I would argue that they cohere and come together precisely because the God that I can come to know by reason alone without divine revelation is identical to the God who reveals himself supernaturally through sacred scripture. So what I know through philosophical reasoning if done correctly will never contradict in essence that which God reveals about himself through sacred scripture and/or through sacred tradition. And so the faith and reason is going to go hand in hand. Now, are there times when what we’re presented with in sacred scripture apparently on the surface seems to conflict with what we know philosophically about God? Absolutely. And that’s where we get into utilizing the prior philosophical conclusions that we know by reason, which we cannot get around about God and allow that to help us exegete and interpret certain things that we discover about God within the biblical text, coming to an understanding of the authors using, for example, anthropomorphic language about God being angry or God repenting of what he did.

And given our prior philosophical commitments, which we know about God to be true, we know when we approach these kinds of texts within sacred scripture, we’re able to interpret them appropriately to understand that the author is trying to explain things about God’s relationship to creation, how we talk to each explain things in relation to each other, anthropomorphisms and metaphors that are being used when the Bible talks about God changing. It’s not trying to assert that God himself changes, but that there are changes in the world that God brings about as the unmoved mover, but the ancient author is simply utilizing elementary speech, you might say, or human speech, ascribing change to God without trying to parse out those metaphysical realities and nuances.

James:

Yeah, like condescending language. Yeah.

Karlo:

Yeah. Speaking of like I will talk to a three-year-old about heaven and being with God in heaven in a way that I am not going to talk about heaven and God when I’m having a philosophical discourse with you or with anybody else.

James:

You’re not going to use colastic language with your three-year-old? Come on.

Karlo:

I will say this. I will do my best as a Thomas. I will do my best to use language that in no way entails a lie. I can tell you that.

James:

Can you imagine talking about these things to a three-year-old with scholastic language? That would be amazing. It’d be more amazing if a three-year-old can understand it.

Karlo:

Well, I tell you what, I was on Catholic Answers Live just last night, man. I had a five-year-old call and just asked point blankly with clarity, how do we as a Catholic get to heaven? Boom. I was like, “What?”

James:

That was amazing. Crazy.

Karlo:

Five-year-old asking that, it was crazy.

James:

Again, another preliminary question, this next one, Carlo. So don’t think anything of it. How many books have you authored?

Karlo:

Well, I’ve authored seven now.

James:

Wow.

Karlo:

But that’s Trump change in relation to my colleague, Trent Horn, who now has like 13 darn books, man. So it’s like seven is nothing man, compared to what he has. He’s a machine, man. He’s got a gift from the Lord. That’s all I can say. But yeah, my seventh book came out last September, last year in September and that was baptism now saves you how water and spirit give eternal life. And then I have a couple of booklets that I wrote for Catholic Answers, 20 Answers Booklets and some other publications. But as far as book form goes, seven of them so far.

James:

Okay. Now according to your books, and I’m looking at the questions, so if you’re wondering where I’m looking, I’m looking at my questions. According to your books, you seek to meet the Protestant challenge. And it’s a fair question because you could have addressed, say, the other apostolic branches in schism, right? Yeah. Why did you choose to target the flaws of Protestantism?

Karlo:

Yeah, that’s a great question. The simple answer, James, is the Providence of God, like God’s Providence and that’s just sort of my journey in my intellectual journey, my journey of coming to know the Catholic faith was started and mostly within the Catholic Protestant realm. And that’s explained due to the fact that I entered into the apologetics movement through the ministry of Tim Staples and that was his primary focus. And at that time when I was coming into apologetics, that was sort of the main thrust of apologetics was the Catholic Protestant dialogue with the work of Catholic answers. That was sort of the modern apologetics landscape. And so it was just sort of a historical circumstance as to why I ended up in that apologetical formation. And that of course ultimately finds its root in the Father’s Providence. And so through that, that was the majority of my formation informally and then also formally in getting my theological education, sort of the interlocutors and the opposing views that were engaging through that philosophical formation was mostly Protestant.

The Augustine Institute was very biblically based and heavy on the biblical theology and whatever systematic theology that I was learning in my undergraduate and graduate degrees was just often targeting any sort of opposing views from our Protestant brothers and sisters. And then when I started working for Father Robert Spitzer in the Majest Center for two years prior to coming on board with Catholic answers, then I started forming myself in the philosophical landscape of dealing with secularism, atheism, agnosticism, and a bit of skepticism to Christianity because working for Father Robert Spitzer, that was his shtick, right? That was his niche. And so there I started forming myself philosophically, got my master’s in philosophy and then had a desire to pursue my doctorate in philosophy in order to deal with secularism, atheism, agnosticism, et cetera. And also too, dealing with secular ethics, secular views of ethics, appealing to the natural classical, natural law theory and whatnot.

So that was part of my formation in my journey. And now currently working for Catholic Answers, I picked back up on the Catholic Protestant. First of all, my first book actually targeted atheism, agnosticism, and skepticism entitled Prepare the Way Overcoming Obstacles to God, the Gospel and the Church. And so that was my first book. But then with the direction of Catholic ancers, we’re a team. I’m not an individual standalone guy, so I kind of take their feedback and move with the team. It was decided for me to begin writing books that would dip back into that Catholic Protestant dialogue. And interestingly enough, the whole apologetics landscape shifted away a bit from the Catholic Protestant stuff to the atheism and agnosticism, but then seemingly it’s shifting back to the Catholic Protestant dialogue to where that’s very popular right now. Many Protestants are … I really believe the spirit’s moving in the heart of our Protestant brothers and sisters to open the mind to begin inquiring into Catholicism.

And so that was sort of a reason why I wrote those books focusing on the Catholic Protestant dialogue. And so I think it’s just sort of in the Father’s Providence of how he’s led me in my intellectual journey and in my journey as an apologist to produce resources that are catering to that particular debate and dialogue.

James:

Right. No, that’s great, man. And among your various books though, Carlo, you defend various doctrines, i.e. Purgatory. Your articulations on purgatory to me are some of the best.

Karlo:

Thank you.

James:

Hands down and people need to discover your works. We’re going to get the mods in the chat to place the links for your books because they’re very beneficial.

Karlo:

Nevertheless-

James:

Thank you. You defend certain doctrines such as baptism and purgatory.

Karlo:

Yeah.

James:

But according to your point of view and according to your experience, which topics are typically the easiest to overcome for a Protestant?

Karlo:

Yeah, that’s a great question. I think the intercession of the saints is the easiest. First of all, that they intercede for us, that they’re able and in fact do intercede for us and consequently that is good and appropriate for us to invoke them as fellow members of the mystical body of Christ who are perfected in Christ up in heaven. I think that’s perhaps the easiest, not only sort of intellectually as I assess it objectively, but even experientially in my conversations with Protestants. I remember, James, the very first Protestant that I evangelized subsequent to my informal apologetical training, it was back in Louisiana, he became a great friend of mine, but there was a gal who was a Catholic friend of mine and she was dating this hardcore Baptist dude and she was like, “Carlo, I know you do study apologetics. Would you come and talk to my Baptist boyfriend?” They were actually engaged, man.

And so I went to his Baptist church, sat down with him and man, for five hours we visited and chatted. And I remember vividly in that conversation when I walked him through St. Paul’s teaching of the mystical body of Christ and the implications of that of the Christians in heaven and how charity would motivate and move them to intercede for us and that they can intercede for us and all the biblical evidence scales just fell from his eyes. And at the end of that conversation, he was affirming the intercession of the saints. And in fact, he became Catholic and he became such an intense Catholic, this gal was like, “No, thank you. ” He didn’t get married, man.

James:

No way.

Karlo:

I know, right?

James:

Bittersweet, bittersweet.

Karlo:

Bittersweet, bittersweet. And then just also anecdotally, just not too long ago, James, there’s a gentleman here in the Diocese of Tulsa who is a fantastic guy. He’s a former Church of Christ evangelist, man. This boy knows the Bible backwards and forwards. He can smoke me and walk 10 circles around me in biblical apologetics and stuff. He’s a scripture scholar. I Informally. Well, actually formally as well. But anyway, he converted to Catholicism a year and a half ago. And so he came to one of my talks in the Intercession of the Saints when my book on the Intercession of the Saints just came out. And so I laid out the argument from Revelation five: eight of the 24 Presbyters offering up the president of Saints in the form of golden bowls of incense. And so apparently at that time that was sort of the first time he heard that argument.

So he went home and he called five of his Protestant friends and walked them through that argument step by step, all five of which at the end of those conversations affirm the intercession of the saints. So he comes to midnight mass with me last Christmas and we’re sitting in the pew before mass and we’re chatting and he was like, “Yeah, my Protestant friends are coming to see the intercession of the Saints.” I was like, “Yeah, you told me that already. The five.” He said, “No, 25 now.” And so that’s just some evidence to show that I do think the intercession of the saints is a good place to start in conversations with our Protestant brothers and sisters because the biblical evidence is quite profound and it can open the Protestant up at least there seeing that on Catholic distinctive is true and biblically based and that disposes them, opens them up to begin inquiring and being open to receiving and looking into other issues.

James:

The other side of the coin, which is probably the hardest for them to overcome.

Karlo:

And

James:

You can pick whatever topic. I’m not saying out of these particular five topics, which is the hardest to overcome.

Karlo:

Yeah. So I think when it comes to the Marian doctrines and dogmas, the immaculate conception, Mary’s sinlessness, I think a Protestant can … I’m sympathetic to a Protestant who will struggle with having sort of that historical gap from sacred scripture to the mid-fourth century where you really start seeing those Marian beliefs come to the fore. And although that lack of explicit evidence in that 200 year, 250-year gap doesn’t mean they were not believed I can see how it can cause a bit of an obstacle for a Protestant to have sacred scripture and some hints of these Marian beliefs in sacred scripture, I would argue for that, but then have that 200 or so year silence and then you have that explosion of Marian beliefs in the middle of the fourth century, at least initially I can sympathize with the Protestant who’s going to have a bit of a hangup when it comes to that.

I can also sympathize with the Protestant who cannot see in the first 200 years, say, of seeing people supremacy as defined by Vatican one. I argue, and I think that with an open mind, you see leadership from the Church of Rome for sure within the first 200 years. I think there is evidence for that, but I will sympathize with the Protestant who has a hard time seeing infallibility being exercised within those first 200 years and seeing that evidence of the Roman supremacy and the Bishop of Rome like you see say in Pope Leo at the Council of Calcidan or Calcidan, however you wish to pronounce that. So I think those historical issues and the gap that you have between scripture and subsequent to right into the third century and the first and second century, sort of that gap, I sympathize with that. Although when it comes to the role of the Bishop of Rome, we have definitely more evidence for that in the first 200 years than we do say for the Marian beliefs.

James:

Okay. So in your opinion, judging on the idea that you’ve spoken to a bunch of our brothers and sisters from the various Protestant denominations, what in your opinion is the most effective way to evangelize in this secular world? I know that’s a very broad question, but it’s designed in that way. It’s designed to be broad because I want you to take it where you can go, I realize this might take you a couple minutes to answer because you might touch on a few things. Please do so actually because we’re online, right? We’re personalities online and that’s one thing for you and I, but there’s a bunch of people that watch us and like you said, you gave a little bit of a lecture on the intercession of the saints and your friend propagated to five and like a year later, 25,

Karlo:

Right? Yeah.

James:

These are very important things that the world needs to open their ears to and their mind to.

Karlo:

Yeah.

James:

So

Karlo:

Go ahead.

James:

I’m going to be on mute for one minute. Go ahead.

Karlo:

Yeah. So you started the question based upon my interactions with our fellow Christians like Protestant brothers and sisters, but then you shifted to the question evangelizing within this secular world. So I’m not quite sure if my target audience or Protestants or both ends.

James:

Oh, for

Karlo:

Both. Yes, please.

Yeah. So if we start with the secular audience, I think it goes without saying that you can’t evangelize them and engage them in conversation based upon the authority of the Bible since they don’t quite know that or they don’t hold to the Bible as authoritative within their intellectual framework and system. So there we have to appeal to philosophy to reason and this is where the philosophical training comes into play and talking about God and his existence addressing issues like the problem of evil, divine hiddenness, why does God permit intellectual error? Why does God permit moral error or moral defect? Why does God permit natural evils and physical evils within the world and having to deal with those issues from a philosophical standpoint and then also appealing to history and engaging in historical apologetics concerning the historicity of the gospels and the divinity of Jesus and the implications for our lives personally of what the resurrection of Jesus has for us.

And so those sorts of issues will be the issues that we have to persuasively present to a secular world and facilitate conversations in ways that can present that information in a persuasive, positive way in order to make theism and more specific Christianity a viable option for an intellectually credible human being, especially within our secular world where the intellect is prized, at least within the scientific realm it is for sure, but people generally speaking want to be intellectually credible and sophisticated. And so we have to be able to present Christianity as a viable option for that sort of person. And so that’s sort of evangelizing within the secular world. And of course, everybody has their own unique gifts and talents, James, with regard to how they can appropriate and transmit that information. And that’s where one of the things I often think about in any evangelistic endeavor is to do our best to study, make the deposits of knowledge, so to speak, right?

And then we allow the Holy Spirit to help us withdraw from that deposit of knowledge in accord with what is relevant at the time and what the need is for the person to whom I’m speaking. And often that is discovered. You come to know what you need in conversation, just a natural conversation like you’re doing with me, you’re asking me some questions, we’re getting to know each other. And so we can ask people questions just honestly, “What do you believe?” And whenever they state what they believe, then we simply ask, “Well, that’s interesting. What are your reasons for that? What led you come to that conclusion?” Just sort of those natural questions like that and then that dictates where the conversation can go and then assuming that we have the relevant knowledge through our apologetical training, et cetera, then we can engage that person in this sort of natural, organic, conversational way rather than proclaiming the truth and here are my reasons why it is true.

Although that’s great, but sometimes that’s not received well psychologically in conversations. And so the idea is to get people to tell their story and then you just honestly curiously inquire into their story and that manifests like a trust and a desire of at least an immediate initial friendship rather than just wanting to tell them they’re wrong and why we’re right. Now that of course shifts over to engaging with our Protestant brothers and sisters, but there we have a lot more commonality and common ground. And so that raises another important practical tip in evangelization is to always find that common ground first and where you can agree because that establishes trust, it establishes a camaraderie and friendships to where the other is viewed as a friend on the journey of knowledge with you rather than an enemy to be destroyed. And if we approach the other as an enemy, they’re immediately going to perceive that.

And so the psychological barriers and the defense mechanisms are going to go up. But if we can find that common ground, honest inquiry, asking questions, wanting to get to know them, then that’s going to establish that rapport and friendship so that we can be a credible witness and then they’ll be willing to hear what we have to say. And of course what our Protestant friends is going to, the conversations are going to be more biblically based, oriented toward biblical discussions since they’re operating on solo scriptura. But I do think some Protestants are becoming more and more open to the historical evidence, right? And Protestant apologists are pressing us Catholics, they’ve shifted in their apologetics to press Catholics to provide historical evidence for our beliefs. The assumption seemingly being that if there were such historical evidence, then they would be more inclined to accept the Catholic beliefs.

And so that’s sort of where the conversations are going to go and the issues that they’re going to touch on in conversations with our Protestant friends.

James:

Okay. So in your dialogues, like inter-Christianity, right? So now we can remove the secular

Karlo:

World

James:

From the conversation and thank you for that clarification. I purposely denoted both because I’m dovetailing it to this question. Which of the two parties are easier to talk to in your opinion and why the Protestants and the denominations they’re in or even the other apostolic branches?

Karlo:

Yeah. So that’s a great question. It seems to me that engaging our Protestant friends is quote unquote easier than engaging our Orthodox brothers and sisters, whether Eastern or Oriental. I haven’t really thought as to the reason why I do think perhaps because for our Orthodox brothers and sisters, a lot of that comes down to all of the historical stuff where you have minutia within the historical details.

There’s nuances that we’re going back and forth on counter good, legit counter arguments that give good reason for Catholics to pause and to have to think through in order to engage them. Whereas with our Protestant friends, one thing I found is that if you can convince them of these beliefs found in sacred scripture that are Catholic distinctives in relation to them as a Protestant, although they might not necessarily be a Catholic distinctive in relation to Orthodox Christians, if a Protestant is convinced of that belief biblically speaking, then there’s this automatically sort of this gravitation to the Catholic church, like, “I’m going to become Catholic.” And very seldom do you have Protestants even considering, “Well, what about these other apostolic churches?” And some do, of course, but a lot don’t. I’ve noticed that they just sort of immediately gravitate towards the Catholic church and you do the biblical apologetics of Peter as the first Pope and they’re willing to sort of allow that bridge to be built in their mind from Peter as the first Pope to the bishops of Rome succeeding him, carrying on those unique qualities in that unique office invested to Peter.

Whereas for our brothers and sisters outside of Catholicism who are of apostolic churches, they’re going to be more hesitant to make that jump from any sort of petrion primacy, however they conceive that within the New Testament and transferring that over to his successor as the Bishop of Rome, there’s going to be further nuances that are come into play to cause them to not make that jump so easy like our Protestant brothers and sisters do. Now that’s not to say that there are no Protestants who make the jump without … There are no Protestants who make the jump and not look at the historical case. To state that positively, there are many Protestants who make the jump not only on account of the biblical evidence, but also the historical case as well. And they are convinced of the historical case for the Bishop of Rome as the successor to St. Peter in the headship of the church, but there are some Protestants who are just willing to make that jump from the Bible to Catholicism without even looking in depth at the historical case.

James:

Right. A little bit of a loaded question. That’s why I say take it where you want this next one and I’m going to stick on the apostolic churches. Again, there’s no wrong answer here. There’s no right answer here. There’s just as to your view of it, there of course is a right answer with God. There’s always an objective, but you’ll get it. Between the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental and the Syrian Church of the East, which of these would probably be the easiest to heal the schism with and in your learned assessment and which of these would be the most difficult to heal the schism?

Karlo:

Yeah, that is a loaded question, man.

James:

I’m

Karlo:

Sorry. Yeah. So I’m going to be candid with you, James, and honest that in my formation as an apologist, I just simply haven’t, in my journey yet, done enough research into those different apostolic churches and their theological views in order to make a sort of a legit assessment as to which of those would be easiest for us to reunite with. So that would require a lot of further research on my part in order to get a good grasp of where they’re coming from, how close they are. I’ll just leave it at that without trying to go beyond the boundaries and my limits.

James:

That’s fair. That’s fair. And I hope you don’t mind that I asked.

Karlo:

No, not at all.

James:

What is your advice for aspiring Catholic theologians?

Karlo:

For an aspiring Catholic theologian?

James:

Yeah, because I have a pretty big discord server. The few of the gentlemen in there are pretty observant Thomasts

Karlo:

And

James:

They’re going in that direction as well, they’re going into the priesthood. So I know that they’re listening and I know for sure that they’ll benefit and perhaps those in the future that might watch this video will benefit. So I’m sure a person like you would have great advice since you’ve gone

Karlo:

Through it. Yeah. Well, I mean, the first thought, James, that comes to my mind is stay close to our Lord and love the Lord and hang on to him tight. Lest the theological knowledge that we gain through our study, puff us up and make us prideful. And so constant calling upon the Holy Spirit to be with us in that journey. My prayer for me is for the Lord to always guide and lead me in my formation, to shed light upon the path and to give me the relevant knowledge for the current needs at hand and what God wants for me and my life and with my family and rejoicing in the goods of others that God bestows upon others and their intellectual journey as an apologist or as a theologian. I mean, I just mentioned Trenton Horn. He had 13 books and only got seven, right?

Yeah.

James:

Don’t get there, man. You’ll get there.

Karlo:

I have to rejoice in that good, man. You know what I’m saying? But the point being is just staying close with the Lord so that we can stay grounded in relationship with him because the theology, we can have all the knowledge in the world and if we ain’t got that love for the Lord, it ain’t worth nothing, man. And so we got to have that love for the Lord and allow for that charity to animate our study. Practically speaking, it’s a matter of just doing what we can with the time that we have to study the various disciplines of thought, right? To study theology, both biblical and systematic, to study philosophy, particularly as it relates to the sorts of conversations that we’re going to have with people in evangelization, at least that’s a good start. So you’re studying philosophical arguments for God’s existence and how to answer those objections and ethical issues that come up in conversation with the secular world and how to navigate those issues.

So a good grasp of philosophy, both with regard to God and both with regard to human nature. And then of course with the biblical theology that’s in the biblical apologetics, that’s going to be ordered toward conversations with those who believe in the Bible and we’re going to have to have a great grasp upon historical stuff. And I’ll admit to you, to be honest, like in my formation as an apologist, just in my journey, I have not had that time to devote a serious, serious, long, intensive study to the historical issues, which I’m currently doing right now and trying to bone up on those historical nuances and issues, especially within people apologetics and other issues as well. There’s just so much time in the day, right? As a father with five kids and even working full-time as an apologist, there’s just so many hours in a day that I have that I wish I had more.

And so just with the limited time, I can only study what I can given the projects that I have for Catholic ancers and for here at the Diocese of Tulsa and Eastern Oklahoma. So my recommendation is just staying close to the Lord and doing the practical things necessary of establishing solid foundations in theology, philosophy, biblical theology, apologetics generally speaking, because you can take all the theological classes that you want and the philosophical classes that you want and get degrees in theology and philosophy and still not be up to par in the field of apologetics because there are certain challenges and objections, whether from atheist Protestants or Orthodox Christians that you’re just not going to cover in your formal theological and philosophical training. And so it’s important to have formation and all these different disciplines of thought within the whole umbrella of Catholicism.

James:

That’s a great answer. Thank

Karlo:

You. And one more thing I highly recommend if possible for people to get their formal education in theology and philosophy, et cetera. If possible to do the formal education, I do think that is very, very helpful. It’s been helpful for me in my own formation, but of course complimenting that formal formation with informal formation in your own study, I think it’s a both and approach rather than an either or. Of course, not everybody can pay the money for the formal education so you do what you can informally, but if you have the means for formal education, I highly recommend pursuing that route as well.

James:

Okay. Now a little bit of a personal question. Was there ever a doctrine and if there was, what was it that was difficult for you to comprehend?

Karlo:

Yes. So to be honest, the hardest thing, it’s not hard for me intellectually, but it’s sort of an emotional hardship, like a hardship experientially and that’s the issue of basically predestination and reprobation. I see. So at least within the timistic tradition, which is permitted theological articulation with regard to God from all eternity knowing those to whom he will move to final perseverance and die in friendship with Christ and virtue of that supernatural movement we call grace, like God from all eternity has wieled and chose those whom he will move to final perseverance. And then those who fall within the category of reprobate, those from all eternity God knew whom he would permit, not cause, not move, but permit to die in final impenitence when he has the power to move individuals by grace to repentance and die in friendship with Christ. And so the mystery of predestination and the permission of sin and even final impenitence, which merits damn nation, that’s the hardest mystery in my mind because we’re lacking knowledge of the divine rationale as to choosing to give the grace here withholding grace and permitting there.

We just can’t know that because God hasn’t revealed to us and we could only possibly know it in the beatific vision and seeing the divine essence and only then possibly will God allow for us to see that insofar as we see him. And then related to that is sort of the divine razzio or rationale as to why even in order of providence where he permits sin rather than another order of providence where he could have created everybody either A, with the beatific vision or B, creating everybody, giving them the supernatural help or grace that he gave to the blessed mother and ensuring that nobody ever sinned while retaining the possibility to do otherwise. I have some thoughts that I’m working on to provide some rationales, but ultimately I’m bowing in humility to say like, “Yeah, I don’t know. ” So those are some of the hardest mysteries, at least when it comes to the relationship between God and creation.

Of course, the Trinity is the central mystery of Christianity is God himself, right? We can have some light in that darkness of mystery, but ultimately that’s going to be the greatest mystery that the mind cannot wrap itself around. But when it comes to sort of the experience, experientially and the relationship between God and creation, predestination and the permission of final impenitence is one of the most difficult. Intellectually, I’m okay and I’m at peace with it, but it’s sort of in the heart, you’re like, “Man, Lord, why not give that grace when you can? ” Kind of thing.

James:

Yeah, no, no, no, it’s good. That’s fair assessment. Actually, this is off the top of my head. What do you say to those that say that there’s a grand overlap between Tomism and classical Calvinism and the view of predestination?

Karlo:

You’re going to have to specify which point there is overlap. So if you’re just generally on God’s sovereignty, of course we’re going to agree on that. But when you get down to the metaphysical reality of things and the nuances, like for example, in the Thomas tradition, God moves us to choose the good, whether naturally or supernaturally while preserving our human freedom. And what that means when you cash that out metaphysically, God moves us in a way where he creates and sustains in being the potency to do otherwise. So like he’s actualizing my potential to choose the good, like I’m actually choosing the good, whether naturally or supernaturally, but because he’s the creator, he’s also at the same time creating within me and preserving and being the potency to do otherwise. And that’s what’s necessary to have human freedom, the ability to otherwise and such that an effect, a good action is really coming from me and my choice while at the same time being caused by God.

Whereas in the Calvinistic view, when God moves someone to choose the good, there is no potency that remains to do otherwise. So there’s a metaphysical distinction between the two. And then of course within Calvinism, God also positively moves someone to sin and that’s essentially different than the Tomas view where God does not positively cause the will to sin but only permits the sin and there’s the metaphysical difference there. So again, it’s all going to depend on which point of overlap are you asking about

And then therein lies the conversation.

James:

No, you answered it sufficiently. Passive and active. Anyway, apart from the Eucharist and the blessed mother, perhaps I put those two in there because of my own point of view, what is the greatest gift Catholicism offers to the world?

Karlo:

Yeah. Well, I’m going to go there with, because notice you said what Catholicism offers to the world.

I’m going to go with the papacy on that one because that is the gift that has been given to us to ensure that the essence of the church remains always, that the church remains what it is always. That’s the whole revelation of Peter as the rock. It is the principle and virtue of which the church is able to remain what it is and what the church is, an essential note of what the church is, is divine revelation. So Peter the Rock ensures that divine revelation will always remain within the church without corruption, because if it corrupts, then the church is no longer what it is. And so the gift of the papacy is the primary gift that Catholicism offers us from our Lord because it ensures for us that we will always have the purity of truth that our Lord has come to reveal to us and what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us through the promptings of the inspired apostolic preaching and writing.

And so to me, that’s the greatest gift that the Lord has given us so that I can know what the truth is, man, and be set free by that truth.

James:

Yeah. So that sort of soundness and epistemology, that charism of unity that’s associated to the papacy-

Karlo:

Yeah. To know that the Holy Spirit and with our Lord is always protecting that church founded upon Peter and that church always existing. And so consequently the foundation, the visible foundation always existing and the successors of Peter to know that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And to know, James, frankly, that I have a way in virtue of which I can be protected from the sifting of Satan, hearkening to Luke 22, 29 through 32, where our Lord says, Satan desires to sift all of us, but he makes that special prayer of protection for Peter. And so in order for me Not to be sifted by Satan, I stick with Peter. And that’s a great gift, man.

James:

Yeah, praise God. Can you provide for everyone who’s listening your top five saints. We don’t rank saints, guys. The church does. Of course, there’s protodulia for St. Joseph and Hyperdulia for the blessed mother. So those are off the table. You can’t use the blessed mother and you can’t use St. Joseph According to how they’ve influenced your life.

Karlo:

Yep. So initially when I began teaching seventh and eighth grade theology back in Louisiana when I first started my sort of ministry, St. John Bosco was very dear to me and he assisted me, entered into a friendship with me when I was knocking heads with those seventh and eighth graders, man, because let me tell you something. The first two of those five years was some of the hardest stuff I ever had to deal with in keeping my cool. I had some growth and self-knowledge, let me tell you. But St. John Bosco saw me through his intercessory prayer. St. Thomas Aquinas has always been a friend of mine and I’ve invoked his help consistently throughout my intellectual journey for obvious reasons, given his superiority and intellect. And so he has assisted me in my training and in my journey and I’m grateful for that. I’ve also invoked Bishop Sheen, right?

Beautiful. His beautifications fixing to come up there, I think in October, if I’m not mistaken. And so I’ve always invoked his prayer. I know he’s not formally on the docket yet, but I’ve invoked his prayer given his ministry. And I will say this, I got to give a shout out to Mother Angelica. Now this is just my personal experience. I know she’s not a saint or anything or officially declared a saint, but I’ve invoked her intercession for specific requests in my ministry. And man, I’ll tell you, she came through, man. There were obvious concrete fruits that bore within my work as an apologist that I can trace to and attribute to the intercession of Mother Angelica. So that’s been great. And then recently I’ve had some profound experiences, man, where St. Anthony of Padua was calling out to me and inviting me into a friendship with him.

F different concrete instances where I was able to see signal graces. They’re like, okay, yeah, I need to start fostering a friendship with St. Anthony of Patawa. And it wasn’t just to find lost things or anything. It was more so with regard to my ministry as an apologist for Catholic answers because the story goes like Francis initially didn’t want his brothers to learn theology. But whenever he came to discover the eloquence of St. Anthony and his ability to teach theology in a way that would not lead to unhealthy pride and puffing up the brothers, Francis gave Anthony permission to start teaching the Franciscan Brothers theology. And so when I came to realize that, I was like, wow, St. Anthony, that’s perhaps why you’ve been reaching out to me to foster that friendship to invoke his assistance and help in my ministry as an apologist for Catholic answers.

So that’s been the recent saint that I’ve been trying to foster friendship with and seemingly there’s been some fruits bearing from that relationship.

James:

All right. We’re nearing the end because I want to respect the time you have today for us.

Karlo:

Yeah, thank you. Thank

James:

You. No, thank you actually to your phenomenal. I have a great love for all your contributions to the Catholic world specifically online. I’m going to ask the mods to put your channel in the chat. Everybody go there. Make sure you subscribe.

Karlo:

Yeah, that’s the Dr. Carlo channel. So just by way of preface, I have our caution. I have an old channel that’s like just Carlo Jude Brussord or something. But my new channel for Catholic answers is Dr. Carlos. So that’s D-R-Carlo with a K, Dr. Carlo. And that’s my new YouTube channel. Episode just dropped today on whether purgatory is the ultimate insult to the sufficiency of Jesus’ death on the cross. And so I’m having a good time with that. So I would greatly appreciate your audience to go and subscribe to that channel, drop some comments in the videos and try to get that algorithm working.

James:

And hit the hype button, guys. There’s a button at the bottom of videos. It’s a hype button. It’s a new feature on YouTube.

Karlo:

It

James:

Helps push videos out.

Karlo:

Really? Okay. I didn’t know that, man. Thanks for sharing that with me. I’m like a dinosaur when it comes to this YouTube stuff, man. I feel like an old man.

James:

Trust me, I’m technologically slow. So I typically ask every guest. Where do you see your ministry in five, 10, and 20 years?

Karlo:

Well, to be honest with you, James, I do not know my friend, because man, I follow the Lord step by step and he has not privileged me with any sort of foresight of where it’s going to be in five and 10 years. So I’m just trusting in the Father’s Providence today talking to you, brother, and hoping and relying on God’s providence to make it to tomorrow and continue this great work, which I am so grateful for because brother, man, I don’t work a day in my life. It is such a joy to be able to work for the Catholic Answers team and to do apologetics.

James:

You love what you do.

Karlo:

Amen, brother.

James:

I’m just going to go through the Super Chats and we’ll call it a show, brother.

Karlo:

Absolutely.

James:

God bless you, brothers. Can’t wait to watch this one. I’m out for work. Here’s to a great stream. Lovely red pill. God bless you. Thank you. Sometimes I ask questions. We can address them very briefly.

Karlo:

Okay.

James:

God bless you, brothers. May you have a blessed holy week, Pax Christi. Pax Christi servant. Love you, bro. Thank you. I once went to lunch with a few guys from Louisiana and they started talking about fishing and I swear they were no longer speaking English. Could you explain what that means?

Karlo:

Yeah, just the Cajun accent. The accent from Southern Louisiana is quite thick. In fact, so thick. My wife is not from Louisiana. She’s from the Pacific Northwest. When we were first engaged and she met my dad and was hanging out with my dad at the house, she actually had a hard time understanding him because his accent was so thick. Maybe we talk like that sometimes. We kind of start talking like this.

James:

Oh, I see. I see. There’s French out there, isn’t there?

Karlo:

Yes. Yeah. Cajun French. Yeah. Do

James:

You speak French?

Karlo:

I do not. I used to sing it. Singing the French music, playing Cajun music, I would sing it and know some of what I was saying, but I never developed the skill and the habit to speak it.

James:

All right. All right. AO, Dr. Carlo in the house. Dr. K got several YouTube channels, but content is consistently good.

Karlo:

Blessed be God. Thank you.

James:

A blessing and a true scholar of the Catholic Church. I couldn’t agree more Espe Bland though. God bless you, man. Thank you for all you do, brother. Manaya says, “Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray with us who have recourse to the.

Karlo:

” Amen to that.

James:

“As an atheist, I have more lenience to the Catholic position than the idea of salvation by faith alone. The latter just doesn’t feel just at all. “Want to say something brief to that?

Karlo:

Well, yeah, it all depends on what you mean by faith alone, right?

And what you even mean by justified by faith. There’s a whole lot of theological nuances there, but generally speaking, I would concede that point that the general Protestant understanding of faith alone is not compatible with what our Lord has revealed. And as this atheist gentleman is, or gal, I don’t know if it’s a he or she, but whoever this atheist is saying, I think good arguments can be made to sort of show an unreasonableness of it. It’s just not befitting of the Almighty to will in order of providence where you would have justification by faith alone when you understand it in the way that some Protestants understand it, which would involve a bit of incoherency within it and a lack of fittingness in relation to the all loving God.

James:

All right. Thank you, Dr. Carlo. The nun with the gun says … Thank you both. God bless everybody here. Love you. Thank you. God bless you.

Karlo:

I was waiting for the picture to be like biceps. Nun’s with the guns, man, like a bodybuilding nun. Wouldn’t that be cool?

James:

No, it’s a nun with an actual gun. I

Karlo:

See that. Yeah.

James:

That’s crazy. There should be a balance in knowledge and humanity in relating to the person seeking truth so as to bridge the gap and be able to communicate. I’m assuming this is as to the question of effectiveness and evangelizing that I asked you earlier. Did you want to say anything to that?

Karlo:

Repeat the statement again.

James:

Okay. Yeah, because it is a little bit loaded. There should be a balance in knowledge and humanity in relating to the person seeking truth.

Karlo:

Yeah.

James:

So as to bridge the gap and- Able

Karlo:

To communicate.

James:

Yeah. Be able to communicate.

Karlo:

Yeah. So notice there a balance between knowledge and humanity. And by humanity, I assume this individual means not being a jerk. Let’s keep it G rated there. I could have said something else, but being a cordial person who actually knows how to engage another human being with cordiality, friendliness and have a rational discussion without allowing emotions to flare up. And so there has to be that knowledge, I mean that balance between the knowledge that I need to have, but this sort of friendliness, cordiality and communicating that knowledge. Often what happens is when an individual has a lot of knowledge and they’re engaging the other individual who’s asking questions or inquiring, we have a tendency to look down upon that other individual for not knowing what we know. Why in the world don’t you know this? You’re stupid idiot. We have a tendency to go that route.

 

And so I think this individual is spot on that we have to ask the Lord to grant into us that gift of humility to be humble in the knowledge that we ought to have and do have so that when we share it with others, it’s being shared out of love and out of a legitimate concern of wanting the other person to come to know that truth, which is a good for them. We recognize that that truth is going to perfect them, make them happiness, and come to experience life to the fullest, as our Lord said, have come that man would be alive and come to have that joy and have it to the fool.

James:

Yeah, no, as we belonged, that was a great, great question. Thank you so much. God bless you. Joey Esto says, Dr. Boussard, please help to save a soul. My friend Giovanni Benjamin is mixing voodoo with Catholicism. I fear he is formalized on the matter and I want his soul saved. Please help Giovanni tell him this practice is a damnable heresy. Thank you.

Karlo:

Yeah. Any sort of occultic practices, man, are incompatible with what our Lord has revealed to us in full in the Catholic faith. And so I would advise this individual strongly to give up those occultic practices in order to embrace and live in purity the revelation that Jesus has given to us in Catholicism.

James:

And Giovanni would like you to know that this is a running joke. So I’ve interviewed a lot of people and I’ve had a lot of people on my channel praise God. And someone seemingly always makes this joke with Giovanni is that he mixes voodoo with Catholicism. Everybody has rebuked him. The whole point of this question was for you to rebuke him on camera because we’re compiling the rebukes.

Karlo:

I see. I got it.

James:

So would you be willing to rebuke him?

Karlo:

I rebuke the gifty behind me, Satan.

James:

Yeah. No, he’s a great brother. Giovanni’s a great brother. And so is Joey. Love you guys. So this one is going to cause a war because … And you’re not going to deal with it. I’ll deal with it later on in my discord server. A lot of people here hold to the Dominican position like St. Thomas’s position and a lot of people hold to the SCOTUS position on this. So with Christ have incarnated if Adam had not sinned

Karlo:

Asking

James:

For a friend.

Karlo:

Here’s my 30-second answer to that. Given the revelation that we have for this order of providence, Christ would not have become incarnate if Adam had not sinned. Why? Because in this order of providence, it’s revealed to us that the word becomes flesh for the forgiveness of sins. But if God had willed another order of providence where Adam doesn’t sin, would God have become incornate in order to elevate humanity to a supernatural level, to be in friendship with him in that way and bestow that dignity upon humanity? I can’t say he would in fact have, because I don’t know the mind of God, but I will say I am sympathetic to that and then sympathetic to the idea that in another order of providence, perhaps God would still have become incornate if Adam had not sinned.

James:

Right. I agree with Saint Thomas’s articulation insofar as what has been formally revealed to us. We can only ascertain that it’s primarily for redemption as opposed to primarily for glory, even though both of these cite the primacy of love. And then of course I do believe Scotus would say love and then glory and St. Thomas would say love and then redemption. So no, I agree with your position on this. I hold the same position. Well, that’s the end of it, man.

Karlo:

All right.

James:

Let’s do a prayer on the way out.

Karlo:

Absolutely.

James:

Dr. Carlo, if you don’t mind. I started with the Our Father and then you did the Hell Mary. And if you want to do the Our Father now and then I’ll do the Hell Mary.

Karlo:

Sure. Yep, absolutely. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And then as you say, as it was in the beginning is now, “Never shall be world without ending amen.” Our Father who worked in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, they will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day, our daily bread, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespassed against us and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

James:

Hell Mary full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed are thou amongst him and blesses the fruit of Jesus. Holy marry, mother of God. Pray for our sinners. Now and at the end of our dea. Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as

Karlo:

It

James:

Was in the beginning.

Karlo:

Beginning is now and never shall be world without

James:

End. Amen. Packs.

Karlo:

Thanks, brother. I appreciate it. I had a blast.

James:

Guys, Mads, you know what to do. Pummel the comments with his accounts. And if Ahmaud can put his account in the comments that aren’t the live chat comments so that people can as well look at the comments and therefore subscribe to his channel, please do so. Any book coming out, by the way?

Karlo:

Not currently, man. I’ve been focused on this new YouTube channel and cranking out episodes and so I’ve been at the grind on that. I have an idea for possible forthcoming books still within the Catholic Protestant realm of things, but it’s sort of in the idea phase. Nothing on paper yet. So we’re working on that. We’ll see what happens.

James:

Beautiful. All right, man. Thank you. I’m going to pin your channel. It’s the right one, right?

Karlo:

Dr. Carlo. Yeah. There we

James:

Go. We got the right one here.

Karlo:

Yeah.

James:

Let me pin it. So make sure if you’re not subscribed, you go subscribe, guys. PaxChristi Omnibus.

Karlo:

Well, my friends, that’s it for today. If you found this video helpful, make sure to like, comment below and share it with someone who might need to hear this. And for more resources, make sure to check out Catholic Answers website at catholic.com and my own personal website at carlobrusor.com. If you want me to come out and speak at your event, visit catholicanserspeakers.com. Lastly, I want to thank you. For those of you who are already patrons, we’re deeply grateful for your support. And if you’re not already a patron, I’d love for you to consider supporting me over on Patreon. For just $5 a month, you can get early access to my episodes, watch the episodes free of YouTube ads and get access to one of my six hour online short courses entitled How to Talk About Morality and Age of Moral Relativism, which comes with lecture notes totalling to just over 20,000 words.

You can sign up over at drcarlow.com with doctor spelled out. Thanks for hanging out with me today, guys. I’ll see you next time.