Audio only:
In this episode Trent reflects on the life of conservative activist Charlie Kirk and where the conservative movement goes after his death.
Transcription:
Trent:
On September 10th, 2025, conservative activist Charlie Kirk was assassinated while engaging in one of his popular open debate events at Utah Valley University. He survived by his wife, his two young children, and a praiseworthy legacy of communicating the Christian worldview to a secular culture. Today I want to honor Charlie’s legacy and offer some thoughts that I think will be helpful for many of us who are mourning this tragedy. First, I want to say that Charlie Kirk was a good man. He was someone who embodied the idea of acting in good faith and was willing to charitably dialogue with those on the left who disagreed with him. I met Charlie in January of this year when we were both speaking at the Pro-Life Summit in Washington, DC during the March for Life. We were hanging out in the speaker’s room and Charlie said to me, I’ve seen your videos about me.
I think they’re great. And these included a video where I affirmed Charlie’s defense of the pro-life view on Jubilee and a video where I was critical of his objections to Catholicism. He told me, look, I think it’s great when people defend what they believe, and he did not take any of my criticisms personally. We had a really good chat and one of his friends was in the process of setting up a longer dialogue between the two of us. I appreciated that. While Charlie did not agree with Catholicism as a whole, he loved Catholics and he valued many aspects of the Catholic faith. His wife is Catholic and he had recently been attending Mass with her. In a previous episode of Charlie Kirk’s podcast, he said that Protestants undervalue the blessed Virgin Mary and he saw her as an antidote to the modern world’s toxic feminism.
CLIP:
But let me first say, I think we as Protestant evangelicals under venerate Mary, she was very important. She was a vessel for our Lord and Savior. I think that we as Evangelicals and Protestants, we’ve overcorrected, we don’t talk about Mary enough, we don’t venerate her enough. Mary was clearly important to early Christians. There’s something there. In fact, I believe one of the ways that we fix toxic feminism in America is Mary, is the solution. Have more young ladies be pious, be reverent to be full of faith, slow to anger, slow to words at times. Mary is a phenomenal example and I think a counter to so much of the toxicity of feminism in the modern era.
Trent:
Charlie Kirk’s Goodwill can also be seen in how he handled criticism, insults and other attacks. For example, when South Park pared him a few weeks ago, Charlie was excited that he had now made it, and indeed he achieved a level of influence that few people in American politics, especially at his age have today. Even the writers of South Park, probably without knowing it, had to make their parody of Charlie Kirk use good pro-life arguments because those are just the kind of arguments that he would use that would flummox college students. Oh my God, what
CLIP:
Makes you think you have the right to say what I do with my body? Let me ask you something. If a pregnant woman is and the baby dies too, why is the killer charged a double homicide? Well, because people have different beliefs. It’s not about belief, it’s about truth. Science confirms life begins at conception.
Trent:
But not only was Charlie Kirk a man of goodwill, he was a brave man. When I heard Charlie had been shot and then that he had died, I felt like a lieutenant colonel who just found out the general had been killed in battle. But Charlie didn’t believe in battling or vilifying people. He believed, as the Bible says in battling ideas. This is embodied in two Corinthians 10, three through five, which says this, for though we live in the world, we are not carrying on a worldly war for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly, but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God and take every thought captive to obey Christ. When I was in my mid twenties, I used to do similar open air debates on college campuses, and I remember having to keep my eyes open for unhinged people who might snap.
However, I never faced the level of scrutiny or vitriol or danger that Charlie Kirk faced, so I commend his bravery and here’s what’s so sad and frankly frightening to me about this incident. Nobody deserves to be murdered even if they have disgusting evil views. But Charlie Kirk was a moderate conservative on Jubilee. He defended the supposedly radical claim that abortion is murder and trans women are not women stuff everybody believed a few decades ago or even just a few years ago. However, we live in a culture where simply believing that it should be illegal to kill children in the womb or mutilate them in the name of transgender ideology is considered insanely, I might add the equivalent of genocidal Nazi ideology. As a result, it’s considered on this view justifiable to meet such ideology with lethal force just as you would meet a Nazi on the beaches of Normandy with lethal force.
So how should we as Christians respond to this scary political climate in which we inhabit first? Charlie’s death is not a sign that his moderate, respectful and thoughtful approach should be abandoned. I worry that the conservative Christian movement is splitting into two camps. One camp embodied by people like Charlie Kirk believes that we should not stoop to the level of our ideological opponents. They might shout down speakers, dog pile docs and verbally abuse people online and even use physical violence, but our side should not do that. Instead, we should openly and peacefully engage anyone in respectful dialogue and through this change people’s minds so that we change public policy. However, the other camp among Christian conservatives and those on the right say that anything is fair game to defeat our opponents. If they stoop to evil, we will do the same. Instead of good faith debate, we’ll use mockery, trolling and almost any other tactic our opponents would use against us no matter how obnoxious one these tactics is, the heckler’s veto or shouting down a speaker to prevent others from hearing their message. I was the victim of a heckler’s veto at a Canadian university several years ago where ironically some of the protesters wanted to talk to me, but other protesters simply sang songs to try to make me quit my presentation to propose rational arguments that have convinced people on this issue and to have spirited debate and discussions through the dialogue I’ve seen it change mine. You’re right, we have to change culture before we can change laws.
I then asked the campus security guards if this counted as a disruption that warranted removing the students from the event, and they said that they considered the students engaging in free speech, not a violation of campus rules according to the foundation for individual rights and expression or fire. In the past five years, while strong democratic college students have become less likely to want to shout down speakers, they disagree with strong Republican college students have become more likely to want to shut down speakers They disagree with even more. Shocking is the question of using violence to stop someone from speaking. Strong Democratic students have slightly increased in supporting violence, but strong Republican students have dramatically increased going from about 10% in 2020, supporting violence to shut down speakers to nearly 40% in 2025, which is higher than the strong democratic college students. For this group of people on the right, the ultimate goal is to gain power and then outlaw dissent.
It’s not to gradually change people’s minds who then collectively change laws and culture. This camp will say that Charlie Kirk’s death proves the former approach should be abandoned, but that doesn’t follow because death does not disprove. One Corinthians 1 23 says, we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles. Our Lord was the victim of a political assassination, but it did not invalidate his nonviolent approach. Jewish approaches to the Roman empire that relied on violence ended up being monumental failures. In contrast, Christianity’s peaceful approach destroyed pagan Rome and turned it into the golden age of Christendom. The split among young conservatives and others on the right today also reminds me of the split in the civil rights movement decades ago. On the one side you had Martin Luther King Jr, who advocated for peaceful nonviolent resistance when whites attacked blacks for doing things like sitting at segregated lunch counters On the other side, you had Malcolm X who advocated for defensive violence when blacks were assaulted and said in his words, freedom for blacks should be achieved by any means necessary. Both men were assassinated, but King’s nonviolent approach was ultimately the effective one in securing legal rights for blacks. And I believe history will vindicate Kirk’s thoughtful approach against those who say we should rely on more aggressive tactics. Virginia State representative Nick Friis notes that Kirk was killed not because he was a political extremist, but just because he was extremely effective.
CLIP:
Let’s get one thing straight. They didn’t murder Charlie Kirk because he was an extremist or a fascist or a threat to democracy or inciting violence or any of the other reasons that they’re now trying to put out on X and TikTok and everywhere else they murdered him because he was effective. He was effective. The man made incredible arguments while at the same time always trying to seek out calming humanity. He might have disagreed with arguments, but he didn’t hate anyone and they murdered him. That’s what happened,
Trent:
And you can see the superiority of this approach in that it reaches people you think would be died in the wool leftists. People like Governor Gavin Newsom’s children.
CLIP:
The worst part though, Charlie, no BS true story. Literally last night trying to put my son to bed, he’s like, no, dad, what time? What time’s Charlie going to be here? What time? And I’m like, dude, you’re in school tomorrow. He’s 13. He’s like, no, no. This morning wakes up at six something. He’s like, I’m coming. I’m like, he literally would not leave the house.
Did you let him take off school?
No, he didn’t. Of course not. He’s not here for a good reason, but the point is the point you canceled school for like two years once one day took one day. The point is the point which is you are making a damn debt.
Thank you. I’m kidding. Of course. Thank
You. No, but I know, but I appreciate that. I mean, it’s the reason you’re here because I think people need to understand your success, your influence, what you’ve been up to and the fact that you’re on these college campus stores.
Trent:
Granted, the extreme approaches will also reach some people on the left, but we have to ask which approach is going to be most effective at reaching the largest number of people? Also rejecting the far right or barbarian right is so aari calls them does not mean you have to be mely mouthed or weak. Charlie Kirk would frequently use blunt language when talking about important cultural issues, but he was also a person of goodwill. He did not resort to bullying or abusive tactics. When he debated people, he reasoned with them and embody what scripture says in Isaiah one 18. Come now, let us reason together says the Lord Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow. Though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool. Charlie Kirk believed in dialogue because he saw it as the one thing keeping us from devolving into violence and the best way to make our culture better. Here he is explaining this to a woman on the street.
CLIP:
I go around universities and have challenging conversations because that’s what is so important to our country is to find our disagreements respectfully because when people stop talking, that’s when violence happens. I’ve never seen someone do this. Well, it’s a growing trend because people like me are facing violence, assault. The left, the left, yes, the campus. Antifa, I’ve been stormed out of restaurants. I’ve been assaulted publicly, multiple death threats. Okay, so what’s your goal in all this? There’s more people that agree with me than some people would actually believe and they come out of the woodwork. When I do stuff like this, we record all of it so that we put on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens because you start to think the other side is so evil and they lose their humanity.
Trent:
And honestly, that has happened with the left saying that anyone who disagrees with them is Hitler. I have a news slash for you. The Hitler label does not make your opponents look worse. It just makes Hitler look better if being against child killing and child mutilation apparently makes you Hitler. If anything makes you Hitler, it’s being four things like killing innocent human beings in the womb, but the truth is only Hitler is Hitler, and this kind of rhetoric needs to stop before more people get killed. And there are two extreme reactions among the targets on the right when it comes to this rhetoric. One is on the far right who just embrace the terms like being a Nazi or being a Hitler. They say it isn’t just bad ideas that ruin society, they say it’s bad groups of people who ruin society because those groups of people are morally inferior due to their sex or their ethnicity.
They also say that they might as well be full-blown radicals because you risk being killed no matter how thoughtfully you engage the other side. But if you want to honor Charlie Kirk’s memory, you’ll disavow that camp’s methods. We don’t speak with nuance and charity because it’s safer. We do it because that’s what God wants us to do. Two Timothy chapter two says this, the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone. An apt teacher forbearing correcting his opponents with gentleness, God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth and they may escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will. But that doesn’t mean we have to go to the other extreme and just passively accept any insult from the other side. Here’s what Matthew Dowd at M-S-N-B-C said in response to Charlie Kirk being shot.
CLIP:
He’s been one of the most divisive, especially divisive, younger figures in this who has constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups, and I always go back to hateful thoughts, lead to hateful words, which then lead to hateful actions, and I think that’s the environment we’re in, that people just, you can’t stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions to take place.
Trent:
The only thing awful in this analysis is you, Mr. Dowd, and anyone who utters this kind of stupidity should be rightfully shamed and refuted. We should love our enemies, but that does not preclude us from defeating our enemies sinful schemes through moral means. I pray that conservative Christians who want to renew our culture will honor Charlie Kirk’s memory by rejecting abusive trollish or barbaric approaches to public discourse that Charlie himself would’ve rejected. The truth is we are fighting in a new civil rights movement, one that says that children have the right to not be dismembered in the womb or psychologically and physically mutilated after birth through gender ideology, a civil rights movement that says women have the right to not compete against biological men in sports. They have the right to change in locker rooms and not have to see counterfeit women with their penises hanging out. Women have the right also to be on public transit and not have to be afraid of violent maniac who is arrested over a dozen times has been set loose to prey upon them, and it is a new civil rights movement that says white people have the right to be treated as human beings and not be slandered as racist merely because of their skin color. Here’s a clip with Charlie Kirk and Xavier Dusseau on Fox News making this point.
CLIP:
If you look at what diversity, equity and inclusion actually is, it’s just a fancy way to say anti-white. And if things don’t change and people keep getting kicked out of multicultural centers or stopped from getting jobs just because of their skin color, then white people are going to have to start their own civil rights movement because things have gotten way too woke and just toxic.
Trent:
It’ll be very difficult to fight for our rights. And just like in the last civil rights movement, there will be evil people who want to deny human beings these rights and they may use violence in doing so. I urge you once again to honor Charlie Kirk’s memory by emulating his compassionate, moderate, and winsome approach to dialogue and not becoming like the monsters he often faced or even like the monsters who gloated now about his death. And if you are someone who wants to deny others these basic rights, rest assured we will not be silenced. You might be able to kill us, but you cannot kill our ideas because the truth cannot be killed. And deep down, it’s that fear which motivates these cowards towards violence because they know they cannot win in a fair political fight. They can only win if as the quote attributed to Edmund Burke says, good men do nothing.
Finally, I ask that you please pray for the repose of Charlie Kirk’s soul and for his family during this difficult time. On a personal note, I’d asked for your prayers for my family. The day before Charlie Kirk was killed, I found out that my mother had passed away. The stress from everything has also stalled Laura’s recovery from brain surgery, and so your prayers are deeply appreciated, and if you feel overwhelmed by recent news of violence and depravity, please do not give up and fall into despair. Charlie Kirk had a robust Christian faith and four days before he died, he wrote this, Jesus defeated death so you can live. We must always keep our eyes on Christ, especially when the world envelops us in darkness. I want to close with a prayer from this book called Jesus I Trust in You by Sister Faustina, Maria Pia. Laura and I recite it often to help us weather the storms of this life, and I hope you’ll consider praying this prayer, the litany of trust on a regular basis. Here is the clip of it being recited by Sister Faustina who belongs to the sisters of life.
CLIP:
The first part of the prayer, the response is Deliver me Jesus. The second part, the response is, Jesus, I trust in you the litany of trust from the belief that I have to earn your love to deliver me Jesus from the fear that I am unlovable. Deliver me Jesus from the false security that I have what it takes. Deliver me Jesus from the fear that trusting you will leave me more destitute to deliver me Jesus from all suspicion of your words and promises, deliver me Jesus from the rebellion against childlike dependency on you. Deliver me Jesus from refusals and reluctances in accepting your will. Deliver me Jesus from anxiety about the future. Deliver me Jesus from resentment or excessive preoccupation with the past. Deliver me Jesus from restless self-seeking in the present moment, deliver me Jesus from the disbelief in your love and presence. Deliver me Jesus from the fear of being asked to give more than I have.
Deliver me Jesus from the belief that my life has no meaning or worth. Deliver me Jesus from the fear of what love demands deliver me, Jesus from discouragement. Deliver me Jesus, that you are continually holding me, sustaining me, loving me, Jesus, I trust in you that your love goes deeper than my sins and failings and transforms me. Jesus. I trust in you that not knowing what tomorrow brings is an invitation to lean on you. Jesus, I trust in you that you are with me and my suffering. Jesus, I trust in you that my suffering united to your own will bear fruit in this life and the next Jesus, I trust in you that you’ll not leave me orphan, that you are present in your church. Jesus, I trust in you that your plan is better than anything else. Jesus, I trust in you that you always hear me and in your goodness always respond to me. Jesus, I trust in you that you give me the grace to accept forgiveness and to forgive others. Jesus, I trust in you that you give me all the strength I need for what is asked Jesus. I trust in you that my life is a gift. Jesus, I trust in you that you will teach me to trust you. Jesus, I trust in you that you are my Lord and my God, Jesus, I trust in you that I am your beloved. One Jesus, I trust in you.
Trent:
Thank you all so much for watching, and I hope you have a very blessed day.