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In this episode Trent shares highlights from his recent Whatever Podcast debate on sex, p*rn, and feminism with OF Creator Farha.
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Trent Horn (00:00):
Hey everyone. In today’s episode, I’m going to share highlights from my recent debate with only fans pornographer Farha Khalidi. This debate was hosted in person on the whatever podcast, and if you want to help us cover the costs of traveling to venues like this, then please support us at trrenthornpodcast.com. And now here’s some highlights from my debate with Farhath.
Farha Khalidi (00:17):
Because despite an increasingly in vogue, anti-feminist zeitgeist, I don’t believe that sex grounded in love or marriage is inherently more respectful or self-actualizing for women than sex grounded in lust or transaction. Sex grounded in love is often entitled. A man named Randy Vanit repeatedly essayed his 5-year-old partner while she was passed on on pain meds battling throat cancer. He told her about this and she told him this makes her feel violated, but he said it’s to make up for the times that her pain got in the way of them having sex. So she wiretapped a confession out of him and reported him to the police where he confessed it again. Despite this, the police told Randy that he’s done nothing wrong and declined to prosecute. Your husband is the man in your life most likely to rape you.
Trent Horn (00:52):
Well, I had a more informal opening statement that I’d like to go through. First, I would like to say I’m really glad that you’re here. I think that is a very beautiful engagement ring that you have on, by the way. So congrats to that. Do you
Brian Atlas (01:05):
Want to show it to the camera?
Trent Horn (01:09):
That’s
Farha Khalidi (01:09):
A good opening statement. It’s like you’re a hypocrite.
Trent Horn (01:12):
No, I’m just saying that
(01:15):
It’s a very shocking thing to hear. It reminds me, and like I said, this is a bit more informal. We can go back and forth. It’s like when there are some anti-feminist women who sit in front of me and talk about how horrible women are, and I’m like, “Well, you’re a woman. This is the weirdest thing ever.” So it’s just super duper weird for me to hear. I think at one point, and well, I’ll include some of this, we’ll go back and forth. What I want to say is that I believe that we can have virtue. We can have people, there are people who live virtue to love is to will the good. And there are good people. There are bad people, but we need good people in order to keep the bad people in check. And I think honestly, if we practice virtue and discipline as a society, if we understand that each of us is made in the image and likeness of God, then we can reach our full human flourishing, our full potential as human beings.
(02:09):
And so what I want us to argue today is that the root of society, the foundation of society, I think there’s oftentimes two errors here. Some will say that it is the individual and others will say that it’s just the country or the state. But I believe that the root of society is the family because it is through the family that we get more people. But I do think it’s a baffling thing just to see someone and congrats wanting to enter into marriage, but could speak about the idea of sex being grounded in love being no better than sex not being grounded in love. That’s like two plus two equals five to me. That’s just a wild thing. What I heard in that opening was really just like, I feel like yes, there’s bad things, but we could harden our hearts so that the bad things never hurt us or live in virtue and face the bad things head on and choose to be good even in the midst of evil.
(03:07):
It’s better to suffer evil than to do evil. It’s better to be human and humane to others, even if we might get hurt than to be inhuman so that we don’t get hurt. When we talk about feminism, I don’t like the label feminism because it’s been put into this idea of like marriage is bad, men are bad, kids are bad. I don’t agree with any of that stuff. So I don’t like the label feminism, but I do like the idea that Marie Shear in 1986 said, “Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. ” Okay. I think women are people, men are people, treat each other like people. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. John Paul II in his work, Gospel of Life, he said this. “In transforming cultures that it supports life, women occupy a place and thought and action, which is unique and decisive.
(03:52):
It depends on them to promote a new feminism, which rejects the temptation of imitating models of male domination in order to acknowledge and affirm the true genius of women in every aspect of the life of society and overcome all discrimination, violence and exploitation. “So I think we agree violence and exploitation is bad. I agree all the things you listed were really bad. I think we’re going to disagree on the answer to that. I think the answer is virtue and people willing to take the risk to do good and getting married, having children, promoting a virtuous life well worthwhile and can be done. And I think many other things, pornography, abortion, premarital sex, sexual disorders, that inhibits one’s ability to be sexually virtuous. I want people not just to have the bare minimum sexual morality, virtue, doing that which is good. Virtue comes from veer, manly.
(04:43):
Men to be men so that women can trust them. I think bad men, crefeminism, good men are the answer to feminism. I think you and I fundamentally disagree though about … I would never say that in my marriage, I sexualize myself for my wife. What I would say is, and the question I would ask you would be, what is sex for? And so for me, I believe the answer written into our very being is this. Sex is for the expression of marital love. So that leads to what is marital love. I would say that, and that gets us a more fundamental thing. What is love? Maybe don’t hurt me no more, no more. Love is when you will the good for another, but I like one definition of love being this. Love always seeks, not definition, but it’s commonality. Love seeks union with the beloved.
(05:32):
I love going in and out when I’m out here. I have union with the burger. If you love a friend, you spend time with him. Marital love is a very unique kind of union. It’s a bodily union. In marriage, husband and wife fully give themselves to one another. Mind, body, heart and soul. They give themselves to each other and free and unreserved in bonds that say,” I am yours till death to us part. “It’s that complete gift of self. A union, nothing like it. And what’s neat about it is that the man and woman incomplete on their own, when they come together, that union, and it’s real union, can produce something greater than them. It has the capability of producing a new person with an immortal soul. That’s crazy that God entrusted us with that. And so that child becomes a sign of their gift to each other.
(06:16):
And so sex is a way of expressing that when husbands and wives fully give themselves to one another, it’s the greatest love on earth. And I want more people to experience that. And things like the general social survey statistically show that married people are on average happier than unmarried people. There’s going to be cases like ones you cited, but there’s also cases of unmarried people who are more likely to be abused because they’re in tenuous relationships. There’s lots … For example, I take abortion. 87% of abortions are obtained by unmarried women. So you’re much more comfortable, secure, feeling with the child if you’re pregnant if you’re married than if you’re unmarried.
Farha Khalidi (06:53):
But also 80% of abortions were procured by women who conceived the fetus while in a relationship with the father. So why not just draw the line at casual versus in a relationship? And then I can just as easily deduce, okay, therefore casual sex is better because you’re less likely as a woman to be coerced into unprotected sex because it’s actually easier for you to lay out a boundary to someone who you don’t have to necessarily see a week later. It’s harder to do that to a boyfriend or husband. So you’re kind of choosing where to draw the distinction when I can just as easily draw it casual versus non-casual.
Trent Horn (07:21):
No, I wouldn’t put it in that way because when someone’s in a relationship, they’re going to be having sex a lot more. So it makes more sense when you do become pregnant. It’s going to be in the context of a relationship where people are not having tons and tons of casual sex. Most people, they might have a few flings here or there, but most people who have sex outside of marriage, the number of encounters, it’s just easier, well, especially for men, to have sex in a relationship versus just casual or I’d say with a stranger or something like that. So I think though it’s clear in the statistics to drop down that when you are married, you really have a stable connection to that other person that other people recognize there is in law, in society, in culture, and it really does change the relationship.
(08:09):
It makes it something more stable. I’m excited for that for your relationship with your bow. And I would encourage that for people that has been historically throughout history, a way to provide stability when marriage breaks down, we get a lot of other problems. The reason sex is so important is because families make society. What is society? It’s a bunch of people, right? Where do people come from? They come from families. So it’s in the best interest of society to make sure families are really strong. So when a baby is born, they’re super helpless. I have three children. They’re all very … One of them was born at home accidentally. It was COVID, and so we were waiting to go to the hospital because we really didn’t want to go, and he’s on his way, and I catch him, and then I’m getting ready to … I took off my shoelace to make a little tourniquet to tie off the cord, and then the ambulance gets there and all that.
(09:03):
But when that little guy was born, it’s like, wow, he’s totally helpless. Me and my wife, Laura, we are irreplaceable to him. I mean, if we died, other people could raise him, but it would never be exactly the same. It’d still be a loss.
(09:17):
But so if we’re irreplaceable to him, what if … It’s good there’s something that makes us irreplace, that bonds us together, makes us irreplaceable to each other, and that’s where marriage comes in. And sex is really important to marriage because that’s what keeps the couples united together. So that’s why I super don’t like it that you do OnlyFans and 90% of the people who use OnlyFans are married guys. I mean, I think … Let me give you an example. Let’s say if I owned a gun store and I found out 90% of my customers were murderers, they used the guns to kill people, I would close down shop the next day. So for me, I’m just like, does that ever give you pause or make you feel like, oh, guilty or sad or anything?
Farha Khalidi (10:03):
No. I mean, you and I maybe have some … Well, let me give you an example. So you’re Catholic, you’d probably think that thinking of someone with lust is a form of adultery, right? Yeah. Okay. I’m pretty ratified. I would think also it’s cheating to be checking out another girl, or at least it transgresses monogamy. If for instance, you’re watching porn and stuff like that, or if you’re-
Trent Horn (10:24):
And I’m not a super weird, like, “Oh my gosh, if you glance and notice somebody, you’re cheating.” It’s like there’s a difference between
Farha Khalidi (10:31):
A snap- Looking at someone and checking them out. There’s a
Trent Horn (10:33):
Difference
Farha Khalidi (10:33):
Between
Trent Horn (10:33):
A snapshot and time lapse photography.
Farha Khalidi (10:35):
Okay.
Trent Horn (10:36):
Okay.
Farha Khalidi (10:37):
Yeah. So my point was lust based off both of our definitions. I don’t mean just checking someone out. So if I were walking around in, let’s say not even this outfit, I’m at the beach wearing a bikini, right? Let’s say 90% of the people who check me out are married men. I would say that they’ve committed adultery, so would you. Yeah, I should. I wouldn’t then say that I have a moral onus to cover up just because most of the people looking at me shouldn’t be. It’s fine for single people to look at me perhaps, or it’s fine for people who aren’t transgressing a monogamous relationship, but why does the onus fall on me for them transgressing it when both watching porn and subscribing to someone’s only fans and checking someone out by both of our worldviews is infidelity. So why is the onus only falling me for one of those?
(11:16):
Is it just because I’m making money off it or what is it?
Trent Horn (11:18):
No, I would reject the premise. I would say that it’s wrong for you to use nudity and sex to make money on OnlyFans. And I also think women who do it for free on the beach, it’s also wrong. I think-
Farha Khalidi (11:29):
Wear bikinis.
Trent Horn (11:30):
Yeah. I think that people, that’s the virtue of modesty. And the reason for that is I believe, and this is where I think we might differ, I think sex has an inherent, powerful meaning that is always communicated in sexual acts. It is something intrinsic, you can’t turn it off. So you can’t be like, oh, when I have sex with this person, it means something, but when I have sex with this person, it doesn’t mean anything.That’s a lie. That’s not true. Under my view of what sex is, because it’s written into our nature as human beings, sex always communicates is about communicating that kind of marital love. Now, revealing the sexual elements of one’s body is a prelude to that. So I believe that sex is not just something that we do, it’s something that we are. Just because somebody commits evil towards you doesn’t mean you would commit evil back
Farha Khalidi (12:20):
At that. I was asking between the two, a woman masturbating or having sex with a husband who tells her she looks hideous naked. Which one’s more ethical?
Trent Horn (12:27):
Which one’s more ethical?
Farha Khalidi (12:28):
Yeah, because I would pick the first. Well,
Trent Horn (12:30):
I would say the sex act itself between the two of them, there’s nothing wrong with that, but sex outside of … Now, the sex act itself is nothing wrong, but the husband’s being a total jackass, he and he’s being mean to her.
Farha Khalidi (12:44):
He disrespects her.
Trent Horn (12:44):
Yeah. Yeah. He disrespects her. And you could change the genders and you’d reach the same conclusion.
Farha Khalidi (12:49):
But I think it’d be mourn infringement on her self-actualization and dignity for her to have sex with a man, even if she’s married towards him, even if it’s unprotected, so it’s ordered towards procreation and para bonding. If he tells her she looks hideous, naked, then for her to just opt to masturbate. I’m not saying a woman in the real world has to masturbate just because her husband … I’m just saying between the two, is obviously better, right? I think you obviously agree, which is why you’re being hesitant about it. No,
Trent Horn (13:13):
I’m not hesitant about it because you’ve loaded the example. I’m saying that non-procreative sex is disordered. Our genitals were not made to be just orgasm machines. So that is disordered, but there’s going to be levels of where you can identify the disorder. So let’s say I give … Well, okay, I’ll give that example. Which do you think is worth? That lady is just like, she can have sex with her abusive husband or she puts peanut butter on her vagina and lets the dog lick it off. And it’s like, at least the dog doesn’t make fun of me, man’s best friend. Do you think that’s better for her than sleeping with her husband?
Farha Khalidi (13:51):
My concerns with bestiality are just about animal cruelty. If you were to zero out animal cruelty somehow.
Trent Horn (13:59):
I agree that peanut butter can really get stuck in a dog’s mouth, so that can be hard. We’ll try jam. Strawberry jam.
Farha Khalidi (14:07):
I would say it’d be better for a woman to do the dog thing than, for instance, have sex with her husband who beats her. Yeah.
Trent Horn (14:14):
Okay. So you think it’d be better if she’s like, “Oh man, nobody-“
Farha Khalidi (14:19):
Even though once more disordered, I think the better thing for me is the one which is more congruent with her self-actualization when she’s not being demeaned, beaten, abused. Yeah. Obviously it’s more disordered and maybe we would think that’s very antisocial of her.
Trent Horn (14:34):
So you think it’s better for a woman to engage in bestiality than to have sex with a crummy guy?
Farha Khalidi (14:40):
With a what?
Trent Horn (14:41):
A crummy guy, a mean guy. It’s better to have sex with a nice dog than a mean man. I
Farha Khalidi (14:46):
Don’t know about the sex stuff. Okay. Not
Trent Horn (14:49):
Intercourse to engage in … Well, fine, which is worse. A mean man performs cunnilingus on her or the nice dog.
Farha Khalidi (14:58):
If there was a reality in which you can run test … I’m vegan, right? So I’m very pro considering animals. You just don’t eat them. Yeah, but I’m saying that if you could somehow actually test the animal’s desires and push the levers that they could consent and all those types of things, then I have no issues saying- Well, here’s this. It’d be more disordered because it’s atypical. It’d be more antisocial. It’d be more like maybe it could be a proxy for other mental illnesses, right? But I would say that it’s worse for her to have sex- Let me ask
Trent Horn (15:27):
You this.
Farha Khalidi (15:27):
… with the man who beats her, assuming she isn’t engaging in some sort of BDSM type thing. Okay.
Trent Horn (15:34):
Like consensual
Farha Khalidi (15:34):
Things. No,
Trent Horn (15:35):
Because let’s run down this disturbing road more because this is where I have the big problem with very minimal. I mean, you put self-actualization here, but I worry that word doesn’t really do any work beyond consent. You say, “Oh, well, it’s antisocial to have a dog working on you or something like that down yonder.” It’s okay to go to the beach. We went down to the beach here in Santa Barbara, played Frisbee. That’s a fun thing to do, right? Let’s say I brought my dog and I’m like, “Hey guys, he’s super good at this. I’m going to work on Frisbee with my dog.”That’s not an antisocial thing for me to play Frisbee with my dog. So why would it be antisocial to do sexual pleasure with a dog? If you do with other people and every now and then Fyto gets a treat. I mean, for me, it’s just patently obvious.
(16:27):
It’s because sex is for people and we know it’s for people because of the procreative end. When you take that away, you get all of this just crazy.
Farha Khalidi (16:35):
But if the issue for you for why it’s wrong to have sex with a dog has little concern with the animal cruelty, it’s simply because you’re saying sex is designed for two people to engage with, so just get rid of the dog in general because that’s nothing to do with animal causing. And focus on the masturbation because the dog is good shock value, but if the issue is just sexist design for two people, why not just keep it between masturbation? Why not just have it be masturbation because the animal’s desires are irrelevant to you in the moral equation. So just have it be masturbation versus whatever type of sex with a crummy guy.
Trent Horn (17:05):
The reason I have to do that is because masturbation is very common, okay? It’s just a lot of the people
Farha Khalidi (17:12):
Watching- In your view, it’s as disordered as bestiality because the only reason by your view bestiality is morally disordered is because sex is designed for two people ideally in marriage and order towards procreation. The animal cruelty is irrelevant to you. No,
Trent Horn (17:29):
Because it’s not about animal cruelty.
Farha Khalidi (17:31):
It’s that sex is designed for husband and wife. Can I finish?
Trent Horn (17:34):
Yeah. Can I finish please? Because I have constructed an example where it can’t be cruel because the animal isn’t suffering any harm or pain or anything like that anymore than if you let him lick the jam out of the jar
(17:50):
Or lick … If the jam spilled on your leg, you’re having dinner and that’s the trope with the dog, right? The food falls from the table, dog comes and eats it. Dang it, I dropped the jam on my foot. Phido, and he comes over and licks the jam off your foot. Nobody cares. That’s not cruelty. But I’m picking this example because it shocks people like, whoa, that’s bad, that’s gross because they’ve lived in a culture that has brainwashed them to say, “Oh yeah, it’s fine. Masturbation is fine. Sodomy is fine. These things are fine.” And so now I have to say, look, if you take that thinking as to why you think it’s fine, you got to accept all these other things. Because I gave the other example, I don’t know if I mentioned … I mentioned I think before the show, but it doesn’t have to even just be a living animal.
(18:33):
What about people who have used roadkill as a masturbatory aid? So that’s necrophilic bestiality. Yeah, you could still- There’s no cruelty there, but clearly that’s freaking messed up, but you can’t say it’s wrong. What the guy is doing is incredibly unethical. And if she chooses to have sex with him, regardless of that, she has done nothing wrong. But I don’t think that she should be compelled to have to have sex with someone who is abusing her. But if she chooses to have sex in this situation, then she has not done anything wrong. But if she commits infidelity, which that’s what I want to … I want to ask you about infidelity
Farha Khalidi (19:11):
Here. I’m asking whether she’s doing something wrong. Sorry. Which is the more ethical scenario? Sorry. A woman having-
Trent Horn (19:16):
Scenarios aren’t ethical. People are.
Farha Khalidi (19:18):
A woman having consensual sex, he’s not raping her, consensual sex with a man who beats her. She’s not happy about the beating. It’s not consensual beating or a woman having casual sex with her male best friend who thinks the world of her and treats her great.
Trent Horn (19:33):
It’s the same as if I could say, which is the more ethical scenario? A person works at a job where their boss exploits them or a person goes and steals the more … What do you think? A person works at a job and they’re being paid, but also it’s an unfair working condition and it’s substandard and bad versus they go and steal. Which is the more ethical scenario?
Farha Khalidi (19:56):
Well, I would ask for more questions about the stealing one. I can give you details for both my categories.
Trent Horn (20:02):
They steal-
Farha Khalidi (20:03):
If they steal from Walmart, I think it’s better for them to steal from Walmart. Yeah.
Trent Horn (20:06):
How about stealing from a family makes 100,000 a year?
Farha Khalidi (20:12):
It’s probably better for them to … The exploitation would matter too. If they’re working in a massage parlor where they’re being exploited in the sense if they’re being forced to jerk off customers and their bosses as saying them, then I would say probably rip off the family who makes 100K. Yeah.
Trent Horn (20:24):
Okay. So we’re okay. And that’s the big divide between us that I think we do live in an evil world. The Bible even talks about how the devil is the God of this world. It’s suffering, there’s evil, and the question is, how will we respond to evil? Some people say, “Fine, I’m going to be just as bad or even worse.” And I would say our true calling is being made in the image and likeness of God is to be filled with the grace of God so that we can go and do good and even suffer through evil. That’s why I love being a Christian. My Lord, he was horribly abused. People mocked him, they whipped him, his skin was falling off of him and he didn’t go and knock over the Judaean 7-Eleven. He willingly submitted to horrible agonizing suffering for me and you, even though we don’t deserve it, and that’s what I want to be like.
(21:14):
And I think most people deep down, they can look at someone and say, “Wow, they really suffered a lot in life, but look at how they carried that suffering and always chose to do good.” I’ll ask you this, when you’re given a choice between good and evil, should you always choose good?
Farha Khalidi (21:32):
Yes.
Trent Horn (21:33):
Yes. All right, good. That’s the most basic element of the natural
Farha Khalidi (21:37):
Law.
Trent Horn (21:37):
But I know I want to ask about your rules about infidelity because you basically said, did you say earlier there’s really no difference between sex that’s done for lust and sex that’s done for love?
Farha Khalidi (21:46):
I didn’t say there’s no difference. I said I wouldn’t say that sex done through a medium of love is inherently more respectful towards that woman or congruent with self-actualization than sex through a medium of lust or transaction. I could spell it out for why I have that belief of why I don’t think sex work is inherently more degrading. Actually, obviously the actual skin trade is horrible for women because it’s just a veneer for sex trafficking most of the time. But I think as a concept, it’s not necessarily more degrading for a woman to sell sex or do it through a medium of lust.
Trent Horn (22:22):
Okay.
Farha Khalidi (22:23):
Removing coercion or her giving her hopes up about the guy coming back the next morning, her having full informed consent and desire and all those things. Yeah. I don’t think it’s more degree. Here’s
Trent Horn (22:32):
A statement. Sex that is given because you love the other person more than anyone else because you love them. That is morally superior to having sex so you can make money. Is that statement true or false?
Farha Khalidi (22:53):
No.
Trent Horn (22:53):
It’s false.
Farha Khalidi (22:54):
No. Yeah, that’s just the opposite of my argument. Yeah.
Trent Horn (22:58):
I know. And that’s super … So what I would say is then you engaging in relations with your future husband and then you going and having, let’s say you had relations with somebody else while you’re married, they’re morally equivalent?
Farha Khalidi (23:17):
No. One’s committing adultery, which is wrong because you’re breaking the contract you enter into with your spouse, which is to ideally symmetrically mitigate their jealousy and stuff like that. And I wouldn’t even say that that necessarily means both are equal in general. One could be better and that could be more enjoyable. It could be more, it could make you happier and all those things. I’m just saying on its face, I don’t think one is necessarily more moral. You could still prescribe that someone does one over the other because maybe it’ll lead them to be happier and all those things. But I’m saying I don’t believe that just because a woman consensually gets naked for strangers, that she’s degrading herself versus getting naked for her husband.
Trent Horn (24:01):
Yeah. I feel like you have to create this framework to justify what you do.
Farha Khalidi (24:07):
No.
Trent Horn (24:08):
And most people seeing this would just say that’s totally bonkers.
Farha Khalidi (24:11):
That’s totally bonkers. I’ve been putting this out. I sleep at night knowing the only reason people start pearl clutching about porn use being a form of infidelity is once girls like me start turning a profit off of it. But before it, they were very eager to say, “That’s not cheating. It’s purely physical.” So now people are like, “How do you sleep at night when you ruin marriages?” I’m like, “W didn’t say that to strippers even though the most frequent patrons of strip clubs are married.” We didn’t say that about Hooters girls, even though I always see husbands there and stuff like that and their girlfriends have to sit in the cuck chair being okay with them gawking another girl. We only do it when girls like me seem to turn a profit off of it, turn clout off of it, but they had no problem with, again, 87% of guys watch porn every week.
(24:50):
All these guys did it and they told their girlfriend to look the other way. I think your moral panic over it is more sincere since you’re against it both ways. But I do agree that most people suddenly only start caring about how porn use affects relationships once only fans exploded. No,
Trent Horn (25:05):
Because people have been crusading against pornography for decades, including feminists
Farha Khalidi (25:10):
Also. Yeah, rat femmes and trad cons, but everyone else- And
Trent Horn (25:13):
Christian conservatives.
Farha Khalidi (25:14):
Yeah.
Trent Horn (25:15):
Sure, because most people who are just of the world are degenerate. And so they’ll make all kinds of rationalizations and inconsistent standards
Farha Khalidi (25:23):
For
Trent Horn (25:23):
Themselves. And I’m very big in calling it out for everybody. Absolutely. But I think the guys getting mad about you making a bunch of money or some of these OF girls making a bunch of money.
Farha Khalidi (25:36):
I think that’s 100% what it cashed out to for most of it. Not for you because
Trent Horn (25:39):
You’re
Farha Khalidi (25:40):
Consistent and even Here’s why they get mad. For a longtime.
Trent Horn (25:42):
Here’s why they get mad when
Farha Khalidi (25:43):
They get what- And H1V.
Trent Horn (25:45):
No.
Farha Khalidi (25:46):
Yes.
Trent Horn (25:46):
No. Because when I find out JK Rowling made a billion dollars with Harry Potter, I’m not mad because I’m a Griffin Dore and I have honor, but also I am like, oh, this really enriched the world. It really made people better. I dropped my phone two hours ago. Now I can find it and keep it back up here, see the time. I’m not mad that Steve Jobs made a ton of money making an iPhone, making stuff that benefited the world. I think these guys get mad because deep down they are ashamed of what they do. It’s a sign … No, let me finish and you can hop in. Deep down to have to resort to paying some lady to do this fantasy that isn’t real, to do this to get sexual pleasure deep down there. They are ashamed. It’s why they don’t publicly talk about it.
(26:32):
They don’t publicly brag about it. It’s not a hobby you share with other people. They’re ashamed of that, seeing that like, oh, this person, I have done something that I know is shameful and is deeply unmasculine and weak of me, and they want to lash out at the person. They want to blame somebody for their deeply unmasculine pit they found themselves in. Much the same way. If a guy was using drugs and he uses drugs and he feels like crap afterwards, and then he sees this drug dealer drive by in a BMW. If you see a regular guy with a BMW, yeah, some people are very envious. That happens. But other people are like, “Well, whatever, he’s working hard, da, da, da, da.” But I’m like, “This guy, this guy made me feel like crap and I’ve been sucked into this and now he’s doing well.
(27:17):
He’s been able to do so well off of me feeling like crap.” I think that’s what a lot of these OF guys feel like, subs. Okay.
Brian Atlas (27:25):
Hora, do you think women are better than men?
Farha Khalidi (27:28):
You would have to give a specific category. I think women- In general. … tend to be more empathetic. I don’t even know if that’s necessarily hardwired. I don’t think it’s necessary to discuss whether it is, but I think when it comes to oftentimes morality, I think women can often be morally better. I don’t think that gives them more human worth though. So when you say, are women better, I would say they do better things, but are they better categorically? You know what I mean?
Trent Horn (27:58):
Yeah, that’s like asking, is New York near? We’d be like, near what? So it’s like asking are women better.
Farha Khalidi (28:05):
That’s like reading my opening statement about what
Trent Horn (28:08):
I
Brian Atlas (28:08):
Came
Farha Khalidi (28:09):
Up with.
Brian Atlas (28:09):
No, it was in response
Trent Horn (28:11):
To that. I’d answer that. I think men and women, they are better at certain traits, activities in just different ways. Women tend to be better at linguistic tasks and multitasking and men tend to have better spatial reasoning, which is why my wife will ask me, “What’d you guys talk about at the party?” And I’m like, “I don’t remember.” But I can nail video games and driving. You mean being good? Yes. Moral? Yes. No, men and women, because they’re each made … And this is actually why I love being Christian, is that as a Christian, since we believe all people are made in the image and likeness of God, we categorically reject any kind of sexism or racism that says a group of people are morally inferior because what makes us all moral is that we equally possess the image of God. And so now if you don’t believe that, you might believe that certain humans are morally superior to others.
(29:07):
But no, as a Christian, as a Catholic, I firmly reject racism, sexism. And if you’re looking at the history of the Catholic Church, there’s probably more canonized female saints than male saints.
Brian Atlas (29:19):
Well, one of the things in Farrah’s opening is she says, frankly, she does, “I struggle to see how men en mass respect the women they supposedly claim to, their girlfriends, wives, and the mothers of their children because despite an increasingly in vogue, anti-feminist zeitgeist, I don’t believe Farah doesn’t believe that sex grounded in love or marriage is inherently more respectful or self-actualizing for women than sex grounded in lust or transaction.”
Farha Khalidi (29:48):
We can get into that specific component if we
Trent Horn (29:50):
Talk about- I think that’s-That’s the saddest thing I heard.That’s the saddest thing. I did
Farha Khalidi (29:55):
Flush out my argument for
Trent Horn (29:56):
It. You fished it out more and it was even sadder.
Brian Atlas (29:58):
We’ve seen feminism We’ve also seen sex work increase your thoughts there.
Trent Horn (30:05):
It depends. There has been a debate among feminists really since the 1970s about this question and prostitution. So feminists will say, “Look, women should not be treated like objects. Women should be valued just as much as men are valued.” And so I think it’s a compelling argument that the better form of feminism would say, “Well, men to make ends meet don’t have to go and sell their bodies like this. They don’t have to be consumed as objects in this way.” In many cases, men monetize women who do this. Even the men who run only fans monetize 20% of what you make in order to … They’ve just found a nice cleaner way to get a cutoff of it. Andrew Tate did that with camgirls and stuff, which is deplorable. So there have been feminists who say, “Well, some will say, the raunch feminists will say, yeah, women can own their bodies, do whatever you want to hell with anybody.
(31:02):
But many others will say, look, the reality is there’s some people … And I think you’re going to admit this with OnlyFans. There’s what? Oh gosh, 0.6% of the platform makes 80% of the money or something. The average woman on there makes $130 a month
(31:20):
If she’s … And we see that with Patreon. That’s similar. I have a Patreon, it does decent wealth to have council a trend. A lot of people will start a Patreon. They might only make a hundred bucks. And that sucks, but at least they don’t have naked pictures of them on the internet forever, which I think is definitely not worth anything, especially $100 a
Farha Khalidi (31:37):
Month. So I would advise women, for the most part, not to start OnlyFans they shouldn’t, but not with a moral weight behind it. I think they shouldn’t in the sense of pragmatically, like you pointed out, it’s unlikely they’re going to fleece a profit unless they’re already a notable TikTok or Twitch star, et cetera, whatever it is. And they are going to set themselves up to potentially be disqualified from a lot of jobs. Again, that doesn’t speak to the morality of it. I still just advise they shouldn’t.
Trent Horn (32:02):
Oh, on the sex work thing though, there are feminists who have argued, well, we should keep … Well, I like prostitution. I hate the idea of calling it sex work because if it were work, we’d say, oh, OSHA regulations say you have to wear all this stuff to prevent fluids getting on you. And we don’t really treat it like work. If you can do it unconscious, it’s not work.
Farha Khalidi (32:24):
Yeah. And we’re both against that. Same way. If you’re having sex with your wife while she’s passed out, the story I gave you of Randy, that’s not- That’s also rape.
Trent Horn (32:31):
Sure.
Farha Khalidi (32:32):
No doubt. So I don’t know why we’re using-
Trent Horn (32:34):
Because in many cases, prostitution can be done even people are semi-conscious when they’re on
Farha Khalidi (32:39):
Drugs.
Trent Horn (32:39):
And they do that because most people, it’s not a glamorous thing. Around the world, most people engage in prostitution to avoid things like starvation.
(32:48):
And so it is rife for exploitation and use of people. And so feminists will say, Brian, they’ll say, “Well, you know what? If we can regulate it, it’s going to happen anyways, legal or illegal.” But then other feminists have argued, well, you could do the Nordic model. So in Sweden, for example, since 1995, it has been illegal to buy sex, but not illegal to sell it. Because the worry is if you crack down on it, you just arrest these women, they end up back in the system, yada, yada. But they’ve done it where, okay, we’re just going to arrest the buyers, not the sellers, and the women aren’t driven underground and we’ve reduced the rates. And there was only one prostitute murdered by some abusive boyfriend there. Whereas in New Zealand and Germany, where it’s legal, you have far more murders of prostitutes. So I would say that yeah, Brian, there are feminists who push for it and they’re totally off base thinking this kind of stuff is empowering when … Oh, there was a study that was done by a young show et al in 2013 that says when you legalize prostitution, sex trafficking increases.
(33:51):
They looked at 150 countries. And the reason for that is, yeah, if you legalize prostitution, the rapists and creepy guys go to these people, but there’s not enough prostitutes to meet the need. So there’s not enough people who say, “When I grow up, I want to be a prostitute.” There’s not enough people to fill that need, so you traffic them from other places. When it becomes legal, need goes up and there’s not enough to fill it, you got to traffic people in. Bad news. I have a question about a coercive example then. So you’re saying by the way- This fast one. Husband and wife, and he wants to ask for a third lady into the arrangement. You said that could be coercive, you’re skeptical because you’re concerned. You’re just skeptical of it.
Farha Khalidi (34:32):
Yeah, but if they entered it again willingly from the onset, it’d be different.
Trent Horn (34:36):
But you’re concerned about coercion there. Would you be concerned? He’s not asking for another lady, he’s asking to subscribe to you. Is that coercive?
Farha Khalidi (34:46):
Yes.
Trent Horn (34:47):
Okay.
Farha Khalidi (34:47):
Yes, because porn use in relationships I think tends to be something that women turn a blind eye to, but they don’t actually want it. Half of women report being uncomfortable with male porn use in relationships. A third of wives consider it cheating. I think this number’s low bald because I think women, I think it’s low balled. I think more women are uncomfortable with their partners watching porn. I don’t think any woman wants
Trent Horn (35:08):
Their partner watching porn. And their studies, a 2014 study that was a representative study with about 20,000 couples said that exposure to pornography, it was the Dorn and Price 2014 study saying that they were more likely to have an affair. They were less likely to report happiness in their marriage. So I’m glad. So you see-
Farha Khalidi (35:28):
But the paramount issue for me for why I think porn use is wrong is because I think it’s a form of infidelity. Not that it has those negative consequences. Well,
Trent Horn (35:38):
It’s a sign that you’ve done
Farha Khalidi (35:39):
Something wrong. No, my concern isn’t that it’s a gateway for cheating because I think in a way that still takes away the responsibility to manage it. It’s wrong.You’re cheating. You’re
Trent Horn (35:46):
Cheating. It doesn’t matter if you
Farha Khalidi (35:47):
Go- One, I think it doesn’t fit the definition of monogamy, which is sexual exclusivity, which most relationships say they subscribe to. So I think you’re breaking the relationship. I think men who watch porn but won’t let their girlfriend be the only fans are in one-sided open relationships.
Trent Horn (35:59):
Sure. And I’m glad you say it. I’m super stoked you agree that married men using porn- Is cheating. … is cheating, but just as you would not sleep with your friend’s husband, why are you doing OnlyFans knowing there’s husbands checking you out? Come on, just quit.
Farha Khalidi (36:16):
For the same reason that being young and you see women on TikTok every day, they just walk around normally and they say, “I find it really depressing to see married men check me out and realize the only thing separating me from his wife is easy.” Come
Trent Horn (36:25):
On, you
Farha Khalidi (36:26):
Don’t- So as being young, so should women who are … Okay. You even admitted it’s easier as a younger woman to pull men should younger women try to hamper their beauty since married men are more likely to lust after them than women their own age. There is clearly- At what point do you not put the onus on the person? No, no. That’s actually more- No one is buying. Yes, it is. Nobody’s buying this. Nobody’s buying that menu. Older men are more likely to lust after younger women and older women. You’re saying there’s
Trent Horn (36:49):
No difference from just being attractive and walking down the street
Farha Khalidi (36:52):
And turning
Trent Horn (36:53):
On your
Farha Khalidi (36:53):
Webcam and sticking your
Trent Horn (36:54):
Fist up your ass.
Farha Khalidi (36:55):
In terms of more responsibility- Now that you do that, I don’t know what
Trent Horn (36:57):
You do and I’m glad I don’t know what you
Farha Khalidi (36:58):
Do. In terms of moral responsibility for the men perpetrating adultery, yes, there’s no difference in moral responsibility on my end. Same way just because younger women tend to be more checked out than older women by married men doesn’t mean they have a responsibility to hide their beauty or their youth. Would you agree married men checkout tend to check out younger women over older women?
Trent Horn (37:16):
Farhath. That is like saying there is no difference between somebody keeping pain pills in their house, knowing someone might rob them and take the pills versus someone who sells pain pills to make addicts. That’s like saying there’s no difference between those two things. That’s the comparison between being a beautiful woman walking down the street and being you who is an
Farha Khalidi (37:37):
Online
Trent Horn (37:37):
Pornographer.
Farha Khalidi (37:38):
The difference with that is that your idea with the pain pills is that anybody who takes it, I’m doing a wrong thing. Same way I could be pro- alcohol, but against drunk driving or pregnant women drinking, that would be the analogy. The difference is- Is that I’m pro- alcohol. The
Trent Horn (37:51):
Difference is-
Farha Khalidi (37:52):
Okay, here’s a question. If you’re just a beautiful woman and a guy wants-liquor store, if I ran a liquor store and people bought liquor from my store and then they went and drank drive, am I doing something morally wrong by selling alcohol? Am I morally responsible for the pregnant women’s friends who come in and buy a bottle of alcohol
Trent Horn (38:07):
To
Farha Khalidi (38:08):
Give it to their pregnant friends?
Trent Horn (38:09):
No, because selling the liquor store is like being the beautiful woman walking down the street.
Farha Khalidi (38:13):
Why?
Trent Horn (38:13):
You are more like the bartender who serves a clearly drunk guy and they can be held responsible because you know at least half or 90% of your clients are married. You’re more like the guilty bartender who gives the guy at the bar who’s clearly drunk alcohol when he knows he shouldn’t. You’re more like that. Okay.
Farha Khalidi (38:30):
I see it more as the alcohol. I don’t know how I’m responsible for men committing adultery, same way me being young. Because
Trent Horn (38:36):
You know they’re married, you know they’re married. You know 90% of them come to you are married. And you’re not even willing
Farha Khalidi (38:39):
To tell them to go away. I think lusting is a form of adultery and I don’t think it’s the young women’s fault for walking around and men being like lusting after them. Yeah, because
Trent Horn (38:47):
It’s-
Farha Khalidi (38:47):
Why is porn the one instance? You even admitted lust is a form of adultery.
Trent Horn (38:51):
Because you are putting your naked sexualized pornographic self out there specifically for them to do
Farha Khalidi (38:58):
That. No, specifically for is ridiculous.
Trent Horn (39:00):
Why do people subscribe to you?
Farha Khalidi (39:02):
To get off.
Trent Horn (39:04):
That
Farha Khalidi (39:04):
Means it’s for married people to get off.
Trent Horn (39:07):
But you know that they’re married who come to see you and do that.
Farha Khalidi (39:10):
Why do people buy alcohol from you to get drunk? No people can have alcohol for- Therefore you’re selling to drunk drivers. What?
Trent Horn (39:16):
People can have alcohol just for a lovely fun time.
Farha Khalidi (39:19):
Yeah. So people could watch porn while being single. I’m not responsible for people committing adultery. I’m not responsible if I sell alcohol for pregnant women drinking or people drinking behind the wheel. No,
Trent Horn (39:27):
It’s the same as if you had a liquor store.
Brian Atlas (39:30):
Here, go
Trent Horn (39:30):
Ahead.
Brian Atlas (39:31):
Let’s let one chat come through. You
Trent Horn (39:32):
Brought up something though that I think it can be misogynistic or mean spirited towards women, but also women might take it the wrong way and it’s not meant to be. And that’s when men bring up the issue of biological clock hitting the wall. So I agree with you, and I actually cover this in an episode, that when people show pictures of Pamela Anderson or Kirsten Dunst, okay? So I don’t know if you ever … Pamela Anderson was like Baywatch back in the 90s, Kirsten Dunst, bring it on, highly underrated classic. One, the wife enjoys a lot. Fun movie. And of course, Kirsten Dunts now in 2026 does not look like Kirsten Dunson a cheerleader movie in 2001. She hasn’t gotten plastic surgery. And then people show pictures of her and they’re like, “Hit the wall. Oh.” And I’m like, “She got old.” That happens to people.
(40:24):
That’s not a big deal. I agree with you that that is mean-spirited and misogynistic. On the other hand though, I genuinely do worry about women who are told through feminism, you can have it all. You can have a career, you can be successful. And look, here’s this celebrity that had kids when they were 43 and you can do that too. To me, I would say that is like telling someone, “Oh, you can drop out of high school and make the NFL draft. This guy did it. You can drop out of high school and drop out of college and start Facebook, this company, this person did it. ” Yeah, but it’s a long shot. And if you’re betting on frozen eggs and frozen embryos and fertility in your late 30s or 40s, there are a lot of women who realize I made a horrible bet and now it’s permanent cost.
(41:11):
They’ll never have kids. And to just merely say, “Hey, do you recognize this hazard in front of you? ” I would say that that is not misogynistic, just to point that out.
Farha Khalidi (41:20):
I would agree. I would say 99.99% of the time people use the phrase that be wary of the clock or hitting the wall. It’s being used in a misogynistic way. Well, the Jews on the internet, people in the internet are jerks. Also, by the way, they’re always talking about looks. They’re not really talking about fertility. They’re saying the wall always happens. They’re trying to say … It’s this revenge fantasy where it says, “By the way, your sexual and romantic options are going to dry up and we’re waiting to rule the day. It has nothing to do with their fertility when people say that … ” Hitting the wall in itself is such a vile statement.
Trent Horn (41:49):
It is, but it’s not-
Farha Khalidi (41:50):
I’m saying that’s always how these people use it. Sure.
Trent Horn (41:54):
And I
Farha Khalidi (41:54):
Think that- Women should know, for instance, the risks of saying they’re going to freeze their eggs and all these things, for sure. But
Trent Horn (41:59):
Not even that, just finding a romantic partner. And would you agree though that somebody who delays choosing marriage, for example, to their mid 30s or late 30s, that the romantic options for them are going to be a lot more limited because the men their age might prefer to date someone younger or the men that they would’ve dated. I don’t know, is your fiance around your age?
Farha Khalidi (42:26):
He’s seven years older.
Trent Horn (42:27):
Okay. But he’s still around … Oh, there you go. That kind of makes my point a little bit that the men might either, if they’re say women’s in her late 30s, the guy might want to date someone in late 20s and so they’re competing. Now the women are competing with a lot younger cohorts. And the other problem is the pool of guys who are good that they would want to marry, a girl might have picked them up when he … I got married when I was 28. I know a lot of other guys got married in their 20s. It’s like the good guys get picked up and suddenly the guy who’s left in his late 30s, his 40s, people will often rag on women like, “The reason you’re not married in your 40s because you’re a psycho who’s got all these problems.” But for a lot of guys who putter around, well, they have failure to launch.
(43:11):
They probably got their own issues too. And so it’s like, I worry. And then so for her, it’s like she’s late 30s. It’s either the good guys are taken or the guys that are left with are of varying quality or aiming for younger girls and women need to know about that.
Farha Khalidi (43:25):
I don’t subscribe to that. I feel like it comes off stupid if I’m like, “He doesn’t like me because I’m younger.” But genuinely, I met him through work. I met him because we were both of a high enough caliber that we met at an event we worked with. Not because you’re younger. So I don’t think women … So I think women, it’s fine to wait until they’re in their mid to late 30s. Because for instance, doctors marry other doctors, lawyers marry other lawyers. They’re not marrying some 21-year-old. So I think women should build themselves up first and then they should cash out from there. So if they’ve reached the peak of their career, mid 20s or early 30s or late 30s, I think that’s when they should aim to get married because that’s when they can meet the most high caliber guy, I think, rather than just being-
Trent Horn (44:00):
Why do you need a career to meet a high caliber guy? I mean, your guy
Farha Khalidi (44:04):
Seems high caliber. I
Trent Horn (44:05):
Mean, is he marrying you for your career because he likes you?
Farha Khalidi (44:11):
No, I’m saying I met him through my career.
Trent Horn (44:14):
But there’s lots of ways- Only fans?
Farha Khalidi (44:16):
No, not through only fans. We met at a philosophy event.
Trent Horn (44:19):
Okay. But a person doesn’t have to become a … You’re not a PhD philosopher. You’re not a philosopher. You went to an event and a college, probably a university sponsored event. That’s a great place to meet dudes. So it’s like you don’t have
Farha Khalidi (44:32):
To worry. I met him at an event where we were both speakers at, likewise, a male doctor is more likely to marry and date a female doctor than just some female patient that comes in, right? That would be unethical. They marry typically people of the same caliber of success I’m saying.
Trent Horn (44:47):
Well, not necessarily. It doesn’t have to be the same occupation. And I think for many people, and what I would be worried about of saying like, “Oh, you got to build up your career and do all this first.”
Farha Khalidi (44:54):
And you don’t have to, sorry, you were saying, aren’t they drawing up their options? Shouldn’t they try to cash out the guy while they’re younger? And I’m like, no, if we’re talking about what’s most optimal for cashing out, I would say career over age. It can be both. For
Trent Horn (45:04):
Your fiance, I’m sure those other ladies his age are a little older who like him, but the pool then of girls he would like, it gets wider as the guy gets older. So for each woman as they get older, there’s just more women that they have to compete against and there’s just a smaller pool of guys. If you wait in your 30s to marry a guy who is of similar age, there’s going to be less guys because some of them already got married off, right?
Farha Khalidi (45:30):
I don’t know what the average age of marriage is, but I just- I think
Trent Horn (45:32):
It’s about 28 or
Farha Khalidi (45:33):
- I think women should … Regardless, even if it does start to minimize, I would prescribe that women don’t just think, let me take advantage of my youth by marrying someone young. I would think if that’s the goal, it’s getting the best quality guy you can. I would say maximizing your career, you’re more likely to meet … My brother who’s a lawyer is way more likely to marry a lawyer who’s closer in age than just a 23-year-old 23.
Trent Horn (45:57):
I don’t think most people … I’d love to do a poll on this. I don’t think most people, their spouse has their same job. Most people, it’s like a doctor and a teacher or a doctor and a secretary or invoice person or different
Farha Khalidi (46:11):
Or kindergart teacher. I don’t
Trent Horn (46:12):
Know if that’s true. Well, given that there’s so many jobs
Farha Khalidi (46:14):
And professions out there- It’s actually pretty close. No, similar status. Similar status. Usually guys make a little bit more, but also even a female doctor and male doctor, he tends to make a bit more. So they could still be the same job and he still out- earns a little bit more.
Trent Horn (46:26):
Right. No, what I’m saying though is that when you go and meet people, there’s going to be all different kinds of things that draw you to them. And I have similar statuses, lower class, middle class, upper class, but different things you do or different circles that you run with. But I don’t think … What I would worry about in this scenario is if somebody … What is the thing you value most? Do you want to have a certain career or do you want to have a certain guy and a certain husband? And I would say, well, ideally the husband’s going to be with you your whole life, your career, not necessarily your whole life, especially what I went through recently with my wife. She had a brain tumor removed. And I think she had it removed and we had the kids at the grandparents and I spent two weeks just trying to help her learn how to talk again.
(47:12):
And she was just like … I remember when she was … Because she only had 50 words because the tumor was in her speech center, so they had to take it out and it’s got to … And she’s speaking a lot better now, but it’s still a long road. And she just looks at me and so she only had 50 words to use. She couldn’t say this is a phone. She couldn’t say my name. And she’s like, “You love, love me. ” She has to pantomime. And I told her, I’m like, “Look, I’m not going to babytalk you because I know you’re all in there. I know you’re all in there and I’m going to get you out of there. I’m going to get you out of there and you’re going to be fine again, but I’m not going anywhere.” I think it’s way more valuable for a woman to find a guy who will have that attitude with them than to find a career that you can get the guy and you can still do the career.
(48:04):
And the other thing I worry about is that if you both are working, you get what’s called the two income trap and that can be super stressful on marriages. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard about this. The two income trap coined by Elizabeth Warren before she was a senator, wrote a book about this, I think while she was at Harvard, and she said a lot of people have financial difficulty. A lot of times it’s way easier to live as a family with one provider rather than two. You might think, “Oh no, she’s totally dependent on this guy and it’s super precarious.” But when the man and the woman both work, then you end up usually, you need all of that income for your lifestyle. So if you only have one person working, if that person gets sick or they get disabled, the other person can pick up the slack.
(48:48):
But if both have to work to meet your lifestyle, then you’re way more likely to run into financial stress. And because we’ve had a society where multiple two people work, it inflates the money supply and it drives up housing, it drives up costs, and then it makes things actually more unaffordable for people.
(49:04):
So not to get into a whole women working thing, but we’ll probably get into that.
Farha Khalidi (49:07):
Just to be clear, I wasn’t saying choose career over a guy necessarily. You were saying that the best way to catch a good guy is to take advantage of your youth. And I was saying if the strategy is how to get the best high quality guy, it’d probably be to maximize your career, right? I don’t think so. Usually when you think about- I disagree with that. They’re marrying people and dating people who went to the same like top tier people, people who also went to an Ivy League college, you know what I mean? When you think of the royal family, they met
Trent Horn (49:34):
People throughout the school. When I say successful person, I don’t mean necessarily someone who has an Ivy League or a high six figure salary. I mean someone who is morally successful. They can provide for a family, even if it’s modest, they’re virtuous, they’re not going to cheat, they’re not going to lie, they’re not going to do drugs and they’re faithful. They’re not going to beat you when they’re in a bad mood or
Farha Khalidi (49:55):
Something. Yeah. I wouldn’t say someone who … I wouldn’t say that person is a worse person than someone who’s more career oriented. Same way I wouldn’t say a young person is a better person than an older person, but you were still saying youth is better for catching a high quality guy. And I’m saying, “Okay, I think career is that’s the goal.” I’m saying they have more options. Neither infers that one’s morally better.
Trent Horn (50:16):
I don’t know. I would say I know people who have tried to get married at 23, 33 and 43. If
Farha Khalidi (50:25):
The only thing they have to offer primarily other than those things you think- I know people with amazing, they have amazing
Trent Horn (50:29):
Careers, but
Farha Khalidi (50:30):
A lot of guys- But I think the main thing they have as a woman is just their looks, I agree, then getting married younger, they’re going to get a high quality guy if that’s their main thing they have to
Trent Horn (50:40):
Offer. Well, it doesn’t … I don’t think people should marry for those superficial reasons because the looks are going to fade. They are just going to fade and you have to be okay with that. You have to love the person who they are. Thank you all so much for watching and I hope you have a very blessed day.