Audio only:
In this episode Laura joins Trent to share what they’ve learned after her surgery to remove a tumor caused by brain cancer.
Transcription:
Trent:
Alright, welcoming back to the Council of Trent is the newer, leaner, slightly less brain matter, but still wonderful and bubbly. Mrs. Laura Horn, we just wanted to give you guys an update on our journey, how everything’s been going. Laura had her brain tumor removed. We haveve, we’ve been recording this now all morning, trying so hard and I still, I can’t believe I blanked on that. Maybe I have a too, maybe I have a brain tumor. What
Laura:
Is, you’re so smart. But yeah, I feel like my entire world has revolved around that date. There was life before and life after and he was like, what was that date again?
Trent:
It is all a tremendous blur to me. It’s
Laura:
July, July the fourth, because I’m pretty sure that was, it was the 23rd. Okay.
Trent:
Did you know our STE is a compound word in ancient Greek that St. Paul probably formed as a neologism to anywho. I can remember those things. Just not that relative’s names your grandmother. What’s her name? Blanche,
Laura:
I think maybe if it was Yeah, right from Golden Girls.
Trent:
Hey, I would thank her for being a friend. Yes. Alright, so I want to talk about it because it was not what we expected. We learned a lot from the process. We shared a little bit in the hospital. I shared some videos. Laura was waving and saying hi, and she fully consented to that by the way.
Laura:
Texted me and asked, are you fully consenting? Can you even, you sound really out. I was like, I was probably pretty doped up, but I definitely consented. Yeah, of course you
Trent:
Consented. And besides good luck texting you on that, I’m there by your phone the whole time. I’d just be like, Laura is fine. She’s ready to perform. I’m not turning my wife into Amanda Bines and if I am, it’s Amanda Bines early Nickelodeon. Not present day.
Laura:
No. I feel, yeah,
Trent:
You feel like that
Laura:
It really, seriously, I’m like just dye my hair, marble blonde and put a nose ring
Trent:
And you’ll be running a nail salon in Florida before you know it. So yeah. So you had the surgery
Laura:
And
Trent:
I thought, I mean I had in my mind thinking, oh, you’re just going to, because I’d heard from other people, I had brain surgery and I slept for 18 hours a day. I’m like, oh, okay.
Laura:
Must be nice.
Trent:
So I figured that the kids were away at her parents’ house and she would just sleep all day and I’d be downstairs, maybe I could finish another book, get the book done. But instead you had horrible insomnia. You couldn’t sleep, you also couldn’t watch television or films. Anything you were looking at would hurt your eyes. So I basically played charades with you for two weeks.
Laura:
Yeah. I think I gravely misjudged this recovery. I thought that there had to be something to do with test scores, like intelligence almost, which sounds really prideful, but I’ve always been good at school or so I’m like, oh no big deal. I’ll learn to talk really quickly, but your brain doesn’t care when it feels like it’s about to die. It’s like, no, it doesn’t matter. Having an iq, someone with an IQ of one 60 isn’t going to perform better with brain surgery. Part of my brain was removed. Yeah, it is just been so much, to be honest, it’s been so much harder than I thought it was going to be. And that word, I read something about a Holocaust survivor and I apologize about my speech. Okay. It’s really annoying for you, but please offer it up for me.
Trent:
I thought you were going to
Laura:
Hard with this for this.
Trent:
I thought you were going to apologize that what we went through is not exactly like the Holocaust.
Laura:
No, I’m allowed to tell those jokes. Okay. The big C Candace Owens can’t tell those jokes.
Trent:
I can tell those jokes half the time because I’m half Jewish. Okay, so you to
Laura:
A Jew, that’s that counts. But yeah, she describes the word thirsty. She can’t even say the word thirsty anymore because what she felt was such tremendous thirst that she can’t even relate that to everyday life now. And that’s how I feel with the word hard when I’m like, this has been really hard. It doesn’t even calculate with how hard this has been.
Trent:
I went through something similar when I hear the word dead stop. I know you hard out. When I hear the word dead, it shocks me. I think about when my iPad was dead, when I had to fly from New York to LA one time and I was like three hours of nothing to do.
Laura:
He loves to steal jokes. That one is from
Trent:
Azi Aziza. It was all my best jokes come from him. And you I know, but now I’m so slow I can’t have it. What is he going to do if I stole it from him? I can take that guy. I could take him.
Laura:
Especially after the
Trent:
Meeting, you could take a season. Sorry, probably I’ve shown you enough I think that you could handle him. So it was a very difficult experience. I think that it just felt like a lot of spiritual attack of just like then during the process of trying to reacquire speech and it’s not just speech. We thought, oh, your speech should be a little wonky. And then you get home and you’re calling squirrels. Bananas.
Laura:
Yeah. Trent has a video of me first speaking in the hospital and maybe you can edit it in
But yeah, they told me at about three months my speech would return and it still hasn’t returned fully, but not just my speech. Neuro symptoms are incredibly fast and they’re incredibly scary. And so there’s that balance between wanting to offer it up and realizing honestly in my brain, not in my heart because I feel nothing but fear in my heart, but in my brain I realize that this is probably for the betterment of me spiritually. And I’m just now starting to see this. Now that I’m kind of a little bit out of the woods, even though I feel like I’m on the way back from Egypt in the desert with Jesus and Mary and Joseph, but I could not see any of that light at first. So not just my speech though that had suffered. It was also just my entire body.
Trent:
You had fatigue. You couldn’t, when we got home, she would used to do four mile runs every day. And then when we first started, you were trying to take grandma to shuffle down the sidewalk.
Laura:
Yeah, I feel like I, I would insult a 70-year-old to be like I was a 70-year-old. No, 70 year olds move way faster than I moved and still move. But as you might remember, your brain controls your body. I guess that didn’t really compute for me that I didn’t know before my surgery. And I’m so grateful that I didn’t know before my surgery. I think otherwise I wouldn’t have elected to have it had I known
Trent:
That
Laura:
This. But now
Trent:
If you die, Coco is sad.
Laura:
And then I wouldn’t learn how to sign.
Trent:
See, there are good things that come from this
Laura:
And Trent could do his horribly offensive, fake signing.
Trent:
Wait, no, no, wait, not yet. She’s been learning. She’s been learning.
Laura:
Coco, go to work. STR is just
Trent:
Coco the
Laura:
Monkey
Trent:
Bear love. You’ve been learning sign language because in case it comes back or something else happens to your speech center, it’s good to have. I want to try to learn that. But some of the signs, they seem a little fake to me.
Laura:
100%. I’m like, are you sure this is what this means?
Trent:
I apologize to any deaf people in our audience earmuffs so I don’t offend you
Laura:
Horribly offensive.
Trent:
I’m so sorry
Laura:
And I’m here for it.
Trent:
But no, it’s been a lot. I think also what’s really hard is people will say things like, oh, there’s a lot of good that comes from suffering. And that’s true, but it takes time to get there. It’s sort of like, we’ve talked about this with natural family planning. When you have a surprise baby, it’s like it takes a little time to get from, it’s such a joy. At first you’re like, what do we do? I
Laura:
Think, yeah, I really do. Kind of like that. There’s that line that is very similar to NFP between how to walk it. Do I complain a lot because I complain all day. I know my speech center was wonky and got taken away. I don’t even want to use the word wonky. I couldn’t even say my name after the hospital and it took me two weeks to relearn my kids’ names. I had to relearn the alphabet. I’m having to relearn to read out the loud. So I don’t even want to use that word. Okay, step. It’s no good. Okay. It wasn’t wonky. It wasn’t
Trent:
Funky. It
Laura:
Was, yeah, it was not even existent
Trent:
Really. I think you’re talking very well. Thank you very much. But you’re judging yourself by an unfair standard. You used to talk at 1.5
Laura:
Speed and that’s what I mean. I feel like I’m out of the forest kind of. I can kind of see
Trent:
This is the sign for forest.
Laura:
I have forest and now there are just a few trees. I can really appreciate that it will be spiritually beneficial for me in the long run. I just feel like we are still on the cross and I think people are. Yeah. So back to
Trent:
The point, well, you’re on the cross. I’m Simon in the back. I am holding this part. You good for the rest of it there. And the kids are just hanging from the cross beam, adding more weight to it as they’re along for the ride.
Laura:
Yeah. But sorry to go back to the NFP think, do I complain a lot or do I jump to the benefits? There is a balance between both of those things. And I think the people I know in my life who have suffered tremendously, none of them honestly have been overly encouraging for me, which I know that sounds counterintuitive, but they seem to me they are almost like the women who are weeping at the foot of Christ. They’re not like, wow, you’re going to get off this cross. God is your father and this is going to be so beautiful and you’re going to see the fruit. They are just crying. And so for me, there’s my favorite part of my favorite book, Kristen’s Larin daughter. She went to see a witch. Can I see this story? I know I’m slow. Oh my gosh, I’m slow.
Trent:
I thought you worried about spoiler. That book’s, book’s like a hundred years old. I think it’s okay. He’s dead in the sixth sense.
Laura:
But yeah, there’s this part where this, she goes to see a witch and she basically commits a mortal sin. And then at the end at the book, she becomes a nun and the black plague is upon them. And people in this cemetery are basically doing a seance and she tries to stop them. And one of them men is like, are you here to judge me? Sister? She’s like, judge you. I am you. So for me, when I’m like these people discredit suffering, I’m like, oh, don’t judge me, judge you. I am you. I don’t say these things in any judgmental matter, but let people be on the cross for as long as it takes and give them encouragement with Christ. And I feel like my friends have done a tremendous job with
That. And
I think I would’ve never appreciated just how painful the cross is had it not been for this experience. Just like that word at the beginning. Hard having a first child is very hard. And I think there’s so much to offer up and things, but this actually did, if I’m being honest, it felt like a death. And so when you die to yourself, it feels like a death. And in a sense, I felt like I died during this experience just chronologically at the beginning, the speech and the slowness and things like that. It actually didn’t bother me. I almost thought it was fun. I thought it was kind of silly.
Trent:
You’re playing charades for about two weeks.
Laura:
Yeah, totally. And Trent would be so good at understanding everything that I would say, which I was so grateful for him. I’d write down the letter K and then I’d be like, and he would know that I would talk was talking about the Kevin from the office scene where Kevin is trying to use less words.
Trent:
Me use less words, save time. Actually, Kevin, you having to explain this uses on more time.
Laura:
But it was such a gift to have such an intelligent and quick husband who also knew me so well that he was able to understand everything that I was going through basically or what I wanted to communicate. And my sisters were actually the same way with me. So anyway, but in the beginning and in the hospital and even after when I had to be rehospitalized, I felt pretty encouraged. I felt like God had given me a tremendous spirit of consolation. About four weeks in I felt almost like God leave. And how I would describe it was I felt like I was in the tomb. I did not, I couldn’t even name that I was in the tomb. I felt only darkness if I’m being honest. And I know people make the analogy of the apostles a lot of times on the boat and Jesus is sleeping and I’m, in my case, I didn’t even feel like he was sleeping. I felt like he was dead when I was in the tomb for those three days. And so that just recently lifted or is lifting and I’ll go ahead and talk about some things later that have really helped me. But around that four week mark is when the depression really started hitting me. And I think it was really hard on Trent too. His mom passed away.
Trent:
That was a bummer.
Laura:
I know mom did. That’s not dead, is it? I have no idea. No, I actually don’t think it is and I’m horribly sorry to even make that joke. I actually really love Jeanie. But yeah, it was just a really hard time. Even if I need to edit that, I’m going to No, we’re going to keep
Trent:
Going it. You can keep that whatever.
Laura:
Plus I have an out because I’m just going to be like,
Trent:
I have a lot of
Laura:
Brain damages.
Trent:
I think what was hard with us is you were saying, I remember during that time period it was so hard. My mom, you’re like, my mom went back to Oklahoma. Your mom died the same thing. Might as well be the same.
Laura:
Okay. But I really love my mom.
Trent:
Okay. She does.
Laura:
It actually did feel like a death to me when my mom left, except it’s not. But that’s fair. Okay. I guess it’s not the right person to admit to. It’s a little soon. Just
Trent:
A little. But no, it was, but it was hard. And then it’s like no one’s, it’s not like the same. But then we were going through, okay, now it’s us and the kids and I’m just trying to figure out and juggle everything. Super grateful by the way, for all the support from everybody. I feel like everyone’s really understanding. If anything people said to me online, I thought you were going to take much more time off. I was worried that I’m dropping the ball. I still have to work and provide and do all of these things. And everyone was so gracious. Even until now, things will be difficult. Like, oh, I’m not going to be able to get through on this. Only finished one book this year. So it’s kind of like how you would be 1.5 speed, you’re now dropped down to 0.95 and set a regular work pace for people. But I’m grateful and I’m grateful everybody who donated to@trenthornpodcast.com, because I haven’t done any public talks. I went to the conference, your mom came and watched the kids about your mom and your dad, but public speaking, I’m slowly going to get back into that next year, but I’m still declining stuff because it’s still hard. I mean, you get lightheaded, you get tired.
Laura:
Yeah, like I said, neuro symptoms are incredibly fast and they’re incredibly scary. So you really don’t feel safe with your own judgment unless you’re in a place where you trust it is just hard. Everything you do is new. I felt like my life began after my surgery. That was really hard for me to cope with. I feel like I’ve had two lives, and so hopefully that might get a little bit better. But tremendous amount of gratitude honestly, about everybody’s, obviously we’re going to reach our deductible for here to eternity because I have speech therapy, I have all these types of therapies, I have supplements, I go to a functional doctor. There’s just so much troubleshooting when you’re trying to figure out why you don’t feel well. So to have that freedom from Trent traveling during this time, I cannot express to you how grateful I am.
Trent:
And since we’re going to meet our deductible anyways, I just go to the doctor now when I’m lonely. I’m like a 65-year-old on Medicare. I’m just like,
Laura:
How’s it going? So lonely. I’m tired. I don’t know. Laying lonely.
Trent:
Tired.
Laura:
Tired.
Trent:
Okay. So yeah, we’ve been grateful for that. I don’t know, do you want to talk about just some of the other things that we’ve learned through this process? It could be benefit to others.
Laura:
So after that spirit of that time of deep depression, and I would say that I still struggle with depression because it’s really been a unique experience that the organ that is responsible for healing is also the organ that is sick. And so it’s not like that. I had a tremendous burn earlier this year.
At least I could understand what was going on. But when your brain is sick, it is very, and for anybody that’s had severe anxiety or depression, what it feels like to just not feel like yourself. And so to also have children who have so many needs and a husband who has a full-time job. And it’s just been kind of a lot. And so that’s kind of been lifting though, as I’m able to have more abilities and for people’s prayers, I can truly feel them. But I did see a priest because maybe around 11 weeks, I felt, I think it was three and a half months actually, because I still didn’t have my speech. And it was almost like a second diagnosis. I emailed my doctor and was like, Hey, you told me at three months my speech would come back. And she was like, oh no, it can take up to three years. I’m like, come again. It was a second diagnosis to me, to be honest, because you just have this timeline in your head and I was really having a hard time coping with it. When am I going to feel better? And so he was basically like, you’re going to have to die to that,
Trent:
The priest you saw.
Laura:
And it was such a comfort because I almost felt gaslit from other people being like, you’re doing so much better. And you see that God saved you and I believe those things, but when you don’t feel well, you’re like, yeah, but I really don’t feel well. And so to focus on the positive, but also acknowledging the negative, those women at the cross, that’s how it felt. And so he described something that he had heard on pints actually about the tension, the tension of suffering and how uncomfortable it is for everybody and why people want people to get off of that cross for them and for others. And how the cross is actually the most tense thing that you can even look at. His tense body was in the most tense position it could even be in, but that’s where Christ is. And I was like, finally, there is a purpose to this and it didn’t make it better. I still am suffering. But to know, okay, I felt like I wasn’t being gaslit from him.
Trent:
To understand that you have the suffering and we just can’t rush it. And people want to be really positive and that is a good thing. But sometimes they’re trying to be so positive, they want to make the suffering go away. And that’s really more up to God.
Laura:
It’s not up to us. But once again, I am you. You know what I mean? I was like that with blesses my good friend’s diagnosis. This is your cross. You’re the only one who can go through it. And I’m so grateful that she’s so gracious. Like, oh, if that was me now I’d be like, do you want brain cancer? And that’s how I felt even after we got super good news that my sales weren’t dividing, it felt like a true miracle for us, yet I still didn’t feel good. And so how to reconcile between is this what my life is forever? And I’m so grateful to God to be able to live with my kids. And so there have been a few times where I was like, I would’ve rather died than go through this suffering. And I think those who have gone through tremendous suffering can relate to that because there is an end to tension with death.
And so to just hang there, am I ever going to get off of this thing? And so I wrote a book. I wrote a book, I’m very talented. No, I read a book, a book on it’s called What’s Your Decision? What’s your decision? And it’s been really helpful for me, I describing between desolation and consolation and what to do when you were in desolation because we kind of just wanted to move when I was in that space or when we were both in that space, what do you do to make yourself feel better? And the answer is usually nothing.
Trent:
No deal. Howie, when I think of What’s your decision, I’d want to put just two buttons on there, deal or no deal. Are you the sad lady with the case? Always have the money going away. But you’re right. When you’re in a spirit of despair and you’re seeking consolation, you don’t want to make dramatic. You want to make decisions when you’re at peace.
Laura:
Yeah, I did not feel at peace at that moment. Okay, then just sit with it. Anyway, in that I started developing a habit of what I call lay it on the dirt. I try to go to the church once a day and there’s a crucifix and I don’t even touch Christ’s feet. I don’t even want to touch his feet. I just lay intentions on the dirt. But yeah, so just laying it on the dessert, the dirt, I think has been a really helpful practice for me.
Trent:
Yeah, no, it’s a lot. Everybody endures suffering different and trials will affect people in different ways. I think the hardest thing for me in all this and just a feeling of helplessness, of feeling like I can’t just work hard or do something to make you feel better. That’s not in my power to do so. I mean, I can alleviate difficulties, but I can’t just make your body feel better, make you feel more well, and feeling like there’s other, I want to also help people in doing evangelism and doing, it’s always hard. I feel like, oh, I want to be able to go on this podcast or do this debate or do this stuff. But now I’ve got all of this going on. How am I supposed to do it? But I think maybe God is just telling me, you need to slow down right now.
And there’s lessons you have to learn right now that aren’t involved in making an episode or doing a debate. One of them is when I was really, really sick. I remember at the beginning I was so tired from helping you and the kids, your parents were there, but it was awful. I just threw up and climbed into bed and I couldn’t get up. And your dad was telling the kids, your dad needs to sleep. He’s falling. He didn’t say he’s falling apart, but he’s like, don’t bug him. Every dad is like, don’t bug dad. He needs to sleep. And I was just like, I just couldn’t move. I was just helpless. I was throwing up and just thinking about, I want what I do for episodes or debates and I just want them to have a spirit of kindness. When you feel just so awful, you don’t have any energy to want to be petty or to do that to people. And that’s, that moment was what inspired me to do things like, oh, I want to submit my scripts for review. That’s where I got the idea. And maybe if you hadn’t been sick, the circumstances wouldn’t have risen for me to get that idea to start doing that. And I’ve been really blessed by that. And so there’s always, we’re just not in a good position to know the goods that God can bring from our suffering.
Laura:
And I remember after my surgery, I was so on fire, I had all that consolation and I wanted to tell everybody about the Lord. And all I could say was banana. And I’m grateful to meet actually that I didn’t have my speech during that time because I think now I actually know a lot more after having gone through the depression and all that stuff. So all that to be said is that just like if you do, please pray for us that we value our speech always and especially Trent as a public figure. And to just say a prayer tonight for your speech and what a thing God has given you. And this is super annoying that my speech is really annoying. So I’m sorry.
Trent:
No, I really think people are going to say, a lot of people are going to respond saying they think your speech is doing very,
Laura:
Very well. No, the trolls will tell it how it is and don’t
Trent:
Cares what they think. I’m not going
Laura:
To read any of those. I’m not even going to read any of those comments.
Trent:
Not going to read any of those comments. I’m not going to read any comments. Opens laptop. Laura, what are you doing? Nothing. So I’m proud of you for how you’ve gone through this. I think you’ve handled this with a spirit of grace and resilience, even in the darkest times. And no matter what happens,
Laura:
Thank you, I will not take that account. I have a priest on speed dial, father Ben, who I go often to for confess.
Trent:
But that is a sign that you want to pursue on this. So, alrighty, thank you guys so much for watching. Please continue to pray for us and of course this is the Christmas season now so we can wish them a merry Christmas. Can you do
Laura:
And to prepare? I feel like Advent is such a season of preparation. So to learn sign language just in case I don’t have a voice anymore. Prepare spiritually. So yeah, I don’t know how to do that. It’ll be an English Christmas because it’s happy. I dunno how to say Merry Happy Christmas.
Oh,
Trent:
Happy Christmas indeed. Alright,
Laura:
Thank you guys so
Trent:
Much.