What happens when we die? Answers are limited, but the news is generally good. Father Hugh Barbour shares insights into the feasts of All Saints and All Souls.
Cy:
You are connected to the dead, and before long you’re going to join them. Father Hugh Barbour helps you deal with that, next.
Cy:
Hello, and welcome to Focus, the Catholic Answers podcast for living, understanding, and defending the Catholic faith. I am Cy Kellett, your host. I always like talking to Father Hugh, but there’s a particular joy that comes with talking to him about what happens on the other side. As Catholics, we celebrate two big feasts coming up, Feast of All Saints and All Souls, and that gives us an opportunity to reflect on what happens when we die, how we are still connected to the dead now, and why it’s actually a joyful prospect that we will join them in not too much time. I know, it feels like it’s a long time away, but not too much time, we’ll be with them.
Cy:
Hey, don’t forget to subscribe to Catholic Answers Focus, wherever you get your podcasts; Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever else. That way, you’ll be notified when new podcasts become available. And also, if you give us that five-star review, that helps to grow this podcast and share these conversations with a much wider audience. Here’s Father Hugh on the Feast of All Souls, the Feast of All Saints, and why these give us a beautiful window into what awaits us on the other side.
Cy:
All Saints and All Souls’ Day coming up, Father.
Fr. Hugh:
Yes
Cy:
If I may start, this will be the one time of the year where the communion of saints will be preached on. And as you pointed out to me before we started recording, at the end of the Apostles’ Creed, the communion of saints. So can I start there with you? What is the communion, and what does it mean, the communion of saints? And am I part of it?
Fr. Hugh:
Yes.
Cy:
Okay. All right. Good.
Fr. Hugh:
When you believe in the communion of saints, it means that there is a life. Communion means a common union. Just think of that, a common union. Now, a common union would mean that many are united in one thing. What’s that one thing? It’s their participation in the divine life through grace. So the communion of saints includes all those who have the life of grace.
Cy:
Okay.
Fr. Hugh:
Whether here on earth, or in heaven or in purgatory. All those who share the divine life are part of the communion of saints, and that includes also the angels. And it includes also the human nature of the Savior with his sacred heart, and his human intelligence, and his body, all of that. And of course, the Blessed Mother and everyone else. So it includes anyone who shares a life of grace that has that common union with God, and that means the Trinitarian life given to us, the life of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, given to us by sanctifying grace and increased through the other sacraments, and through the events of our Christian life.
Cy:
We celebrate the members who have made it to Heaven on the Feast of All Saints.
Fr. Hugh:
Yes, and a very Catholic way you put it, made it to Heaven. Protestants never talk like that. That’s very Catholic, “made it to heaven”, made it. Now, there is one famous Gospel song-
Cy:
Many barely, I’m sure.
Fr. Hugh:
Right. Exactly. But there’s a story about that. I won’t forget, I’ll cross my fingers to remember. There is a famous Negro spiritual, that’s what we used to call them, I hope that’s okay to say that.
Cy:
I think that is because that’s-
Fr. Hugh:
African [crosstalk 00:03:24].
Cy:
It’s like the Negro Leagues. [crosstalk 00:03:25]
Fr. Hugh:
That’s a genre. Yeah, it’s a genre [crosstalk 00:03:26]. The song, How Did I Get Over? “Looked back and wonder and ask, how did I get over?” [inaudible 00:03:33] Jordan?
Cy:
Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
If you ever look that up, just search that, Mahalia Jackson, How Did I Get Over? That song is fantastic because it expresses the wonder, in fact, she used the word wonder, an amazement that, “Gosh, I actually-
Cy:
I made it.
Fr. Hugh:
“… crossed it and got over here.”
Cy:
Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
That’s something to remember. Even among Protestants who actually have spiritual experience, and that’s most of them I hope.
Cy:
Right.
Fr. Hugh:
Like Catholics as well, there is a struggle before we reach heaven.
Fr. Hugh:
So we celebrate an All Saints’ Day, those who have fought the good fight and have won the race and have reached the prize of eternal life, to use the words of St. Paul. That sets our sights on the goal that we have ourselves, and we have a certain hope because we share their life. The only difference between us and the saints in heaven is that they have died and purified and are now in heaven, and we are here on earth, but it’s the same life.
Fr. Hugh:
It’s in a way like the difference between the life of a little infant in the womb and a full-grown adult in the light of the world, right? The infant comes into the light of day, that’s a completely different world. And it comes about through a really painful struggle and a lot of perplexity, which for the little baby being born is something that we can’t imagine, and thank God we don’t remember it.
Cy:
Can’t remember [crosstalk 00:05:01]. Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
Right. Thanks heavens, or we’d-
Cy:
We wouldn’t like that.
Fr. Hugh:
… have been having to go to the therapist from the first day of our existence.
Cy:
Right. Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
But there is that movement from darkness to light, from the struggles of this life into the happiness of eternal life, but we still have the same life. We’re still the same being. It’s like the little caterpillar that makes its cocoon and then undergoes a transformation which nobody… If butterflies and cocoons were not known of as actual realities in the natural world, and you made up a story about them, and then you claim that you have a religion that believes that little caterpillars turn themselves into magnificent monarch butterflies, they would say that’s a lot of nonsense. That’s pre-scientific thought, that’s magical thinking, and all that kind of thing. But it’s actually an image of our movement from this world to eternal life. We’re the same thing, the caterpillar and the butterfly. But who could have guessed? In a certain sense, we’re-
Cy:
We don’t know [crosstalk 00:06:02]
Fr. Hugh:
… the same thing, but we also have no idea what it’s going to be like. As St. Paul says, “What we shall later be has not yet come to light.” We don’t even know. And the saints in heaven now, with the exception of Our Lady and Saint Joseph, according to the testimonies of many of the Doctors of the Church, and maybe several others. We don’t know the rest of it, that is, even they don’t know what it’s going to be like to have the risen body. They haven’t had that yet. They still have a little tiny slice of hope. It’s not so much a moral hope, because they’re absolutely certain of attaining the goal. Absolutely in a way that’s really absolute. But experientially, they’re not back in the body yet. They’re not going to find out what it is to see and to hear and to smell and to embrace in a risen and glorified body, just like the little caterpillar or the sleeping cocoon doesn’t know what it’s going to be like to be a butterfly.
Cy:
I’m sorry. This is an interjection a little bit, but-
Fr. Hugh:
Fine. Always welcome.
Cy:
I always wonder about this, and maybe there is no answer to this. The life of the saint now, like say Saint Teresa of Avila. Not embodied, but spiritually alive. What is that life like for them? They’re participating in heaven, but not as full physical beings. Why are you laughing at me?
Fr. Hugh:
I’m thinking you’re asking me to describe something which is-
Cy:
Okay, that’s fine.
Fr. Hugh:
Of which I have had no experience, but I can tell you what theologians say. That is that the entrance into eternal life, that is into the vision of heaven on the part of the soul, takes place because of a particular really powerful reinforcement of our understanding. Our ability to see or understand on the part of God, which is called the light of glory.
Cy:
Yeah. Okay.
Fr. Hugh:
And so, Our understanding or intellect, if you will, is so fortified that it is enabled to look upon the essence of God. Now, what that could possibly be.
Cy:
But like Saint Teresa.
Fr. Hugh:
Right.
Cy:
Right now. Could she talk to Our Lady, for example?
Fr. Hugh:
Yes. Well, the thing here is that having that fortification, then the soul enters instantly by a single action into eternal happiness, into beatitude. It’s one thing. Beatitude is a single action. It’s not like you get a little bit now, a little bit later, and whatnot.
Cy:
Right.
Fr. Hugh:
Even though it’s very dynamic, because many things happen while you’re in beatitude, but with regard to your fellow creatures and with those who still remain on earth. And so it depends upon God’s will, and the degree of your merit and charity, what or how much the saints would know about what goes on on earth.
Fr. Hugh:
But certainly, they communicate with each other, but they communicate in view of the divine vision. What they know, they know in God. That is, they know not from the things themselves, but from the origin of the thing. So they have a more certain, more perfect knowledge of each other and the things that pertain to them, and of their past life and of everything than they ever could know by their experience. They will know why they did certain good deeds and what contributed to that, and they’ll know why they committed certain sins and why God permitted it. They’ll know all of that.
Fr. Hugh:
And of course, that will be a constant source of the delighted surprise, because we really don’t understand. We think that that algebra test in eighth grade, that we got that answer perfectly and so won the prize, which enabled us then to do so well forever after and make it to Harvard and become a nuclear physicist or whatever-
Cy:
That’s practically my life story.
Fr. Hugh:
Right. Exactly. Right. Well, you’re from Massachusetts, right?
Cy:
Yeah. Right.
Fr. Hugh:
Doesn’t everybody in Massachusetts?
Cy:
We all go to Harvard.
Fr. Hugh:
Yeah, right. Exactly.
Fr. Hugh:
Yes. That will be something utterly astounding to us, far beyond our understanding and our own evaluation of our actions. That’s why, I think, even with the particular judgment, which the dead have undergone, and we’re also venerating on November 2nd, and the just have undergone as well in heaven… Well, they’re all just, but the blessed in heaven have undergone that too. But when we have our particular judgment and our actions are evaluated in the light of God’s knowledge, we’ll find out that it will be… Even though it’s terrifying, even though we sing Day of Wrath, O Day of Mourning and the traditional right for the dead and the terror of the divine judgment and all that, we’ll also find out that it’s a big relief because God understands exactly why we did everything. And so we may have all our excuses ready, and he’ll say, “No, I’ve got a much better excuse for your sins and you’ve got…” I do.
Cy:
I know because I know you.
Fr. Hugh:
I know you, don’t worry. You don’t have to come up with some kind of fake excuse.
Cy:
Right. Right.
Fr. Hugh:
So God’s mercy is based upon reality. It’s not just some kind of emotional surge in him that he just wants to be nice to us. He always has good reasons for what he does, and when he has mercy on us, it’s because he knows that he should have mercy on us. That’s his nature. So we have great confidence there. So the saints all reach heaven, and Saint Teresa of Avila who mentioned, says, “Then in heaven, we’ll sing forever. I will sing forever the mercies of the Lord.” Her early iconography, they always have pictures of her [inaudible 00:11:25], that’s her having that [foreign language 00:11:26]; the mercies of the Lord I’ll sing forever. So the saints are all there and we’re celebrating them, they’re interceding for us.
Cy:
All right. So feast days on the calendar, they are related to an event, like Christmas or Easter. What is the event that we are connected to on the-
Fr. Hugh:
Well, this shows what an excellent liturgist you are, because a liturgist always teach that the liturgy celebrates events, it doesn’t just celebrate ideas.
Cy:
Yep.
Fr. Hugh:
And the fact that is yes, we celebrate an event. When we celebrate All Saints or All Souls’ Day, there’s something that happened in time or in the later form of duration that happens after this life. But in some measure of human experience with the divine, something happened and we’re celebrating it. Now in the Eastern church, I’m speaking here of the Byzantine rite. I’m not sure of all the other rites. They celebrate All Saints, the Sunday after Pentecost. We celebrate Trinity Sunday and they celebrate… The Sunday after Pentecost is All Saints’ Day. And this makes perfect in other sense, just like we have Trinity Sunday after Pentecost, because it’s like we’ve followed through all the mysteries and we finally got the Holy Spirit descending. And now we can do [inaudible 00:12:46] history.
Fr. Hugh:
It’s a very rational Latin way of doing it. Well, let’s add that on. But in the East, they’d really viewed it more in terms of an event, because what happened when our Lord ascended into heaven? He ascended into heaven, bringing with him all the, just to whom he had given the vision of the Blessed Trinity on Holy Saturday. He said of the dead, “Other sheep have I who are not of this flock. These also must I gather and lead.” So as soon as he died, he descended into hell. It says, and he liberated the departed. Patriarchs, prophets, our first parents, all the just who were waiting for the coming of the savior. They were liberated and given the vision of the Blessed Trinity, and then in the Ascension, he takes them with him to heaven. Whatever that means in terms of the cosmos, but it definitely means something. Don’t let theologians tell you that it’s some kind of vague state.
Fr. Hugh:
Things happen [inaudible 00:13:39] human beings in places. It may not be places like we have, but let’s just say our thinking of it that way is not entirely unreasonable.
Cy:
Yeah. Right, right.
Fr. Hugh:
And not at all. So he took them with him. And why? Because then for the first time heaven itself, the ultimate final state of human beings. The final state, was populated by intercessors. And the Apostle tells us, “Christ Jesus ever lives to make intercession for us as our high priest,” but he wants to be a priest with a congregation, with the people praying with him.
Cy:
Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
And so even in heaven, in that great liturgy, where he intercedes for human race and accomplishes his work, anew to the sacraments of the life of the church, he does that in union with the saints who also accompany him in that heavenly liturgy. And so the reason why the Holy Spirit was poured out in such a magnificent effusion on Pentecost as never before, was because our great high priest was in heaven presenting the fruits of his sacrifice and all the just were interceding for the living below.
Cy:
Yeah. What a wonderful image. Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
And that’s why the Eastern liturgy celebration of All Saints on that particular date is like the octave, we would call it. Pentecost is very significant and profound.
Cy:
Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
And so that’s one way to look at it. And it’s very important that our Lord brought them all to heaven, and then the first great grace, which established the Pentecostal church, not the denomination, but the church after Pentecost. Although the church always existed from the creation of the angels, and then it was established in the garden. It was established in Noah. It was established in Moses. And finally it was established in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit. I mean, the church has always existed. It’s the oldest thing that began in the beginning and will last forever and everything else passes away, just so you know. And we’re kind of celebrating the church in its ultimate form here. So that magnificent event, which they celebrate, we celebrate in the West.
Fr. Hugh:
We celebrate at the end of the church year, because in our perspective, that advent period before Christmas was rather prolonged. If you look at the first Sunday of advent, you’ll notice it’s all about the last judgment. And the last Sundays of the year are also about the last judgment. And so there wasn’t a discreet advent season. It just kind of began to be themed into the last judgment and that kind of concluded the church year. And then you began again with the prophecies of the coming of the savior. And since our waiting, his second coming, is very much like spiritually, the waiting of the fathers for the coming of the savior in Bethlehem.
Fr. Hugh:
We link the two together, the church year as a complete circle, joining end to end. And so we put the celebration of the consummation at its temporal conclusion that is at the end of the church year. So we celebrate All Saints’ Day in November, along with the commemoration of All Souls, and that’s particularly significant. But we must remember always that Christ has been bringing souls to heaven ever since he ascended there. So every single day, since then if you will, souls have left purgatory and entered heaven, ascending with Christ as did their spiritual forefathers on the first Ascension Thursday, 40 days after the resurrection. So we celebrate on that day, and that’s why we should not forget All Souls’ Day.
Cy:
Okay. So the connection then between All Saints and All Souls.
Fr. Hugh:
Every saint is also a sinner. And may we say that with the exception of certain idealized canonized saints, most of those who are in heaven now had to undergo some purification after death in purgatory.
Cy:
Even saints.
Fr. Hugh:
Even saints. Well-
Cy:
There are canonized saints-
Fr. Hugh:
Well, [crosstalk 00:17:09], I don’t know. I wouldn’t say, even saints, in the sense that that’s the common thing, but it’s certainly true that we know of saints and [inaudible 00:17:17] who had some time in purgatory, or some duration. Don’t get upset. You say time in purgatory. “There is no time in purgatory.” Well, the point is, it’s a word we use to indicate the duration-
Cy:
Try to be a human being and talk without time.
Fr. Hugh:
Duration of the experience of a human being. So let’s just say time, okay? It’s all right. Well, the scriptures use it that way too. They say a thousand years are a day for the Lord. Well, both are temporal measurements. Okay so. But the fact is that their being brought to heaven continuously, and therefore it’s natural to bring these two things together. First of all, because the saints in heaven intercede for those who are still waiting to enter heaven, because they know what that longing is, and they know of its intensity. And so they intercede. Now, they intercede in virtue of their merits. That is, in virtue of their closeness to God based upon their love of God in this life. And that gives a praise, a great power, especially for the dead that are associated with them.
Fr. Hugh:
So the saints in heaven help the departed. The departed can’t help the departed. They are without means, they’re completely passive. They just receive God’s purification. So they can’t pray for themselves. And the stories you read about purgatory, where they’re begging to get out and lamenting and all that, that’s an instruction for us on earth to pray for them. It’s not what they actually are doing. What they’re doing is contemplatively waiting with complete submission to the will of God, accepting peacefully and happily everything he sends them so that they can reach heaven. They’re not discontented. They’re not saying, “Oh, if only I hadn’t done this or that.” In fact, they don’t think of themselves at all. They think only of the God whom they want to see. And that’s why a lot of purgatory stories need to be properly interpreted theologically. Some of them are sounder than others, but if you look at the great mystics, like a great mystic of purgatory, and I think Catherine of Genoa in her Treatise on Purgatory, which you can get… Sophia Press used to have an edition of that.
Fr. Hugh:
You probably can get it online. There’s probably a version online. And the Paulist Press Fathers and Doctors Series or whatever. There’s an edition with an induction by Benedict Groeschel, is very good. And you’ll get a better picture of the spiritual state of the souls in purgatory who wait longingly. And so we want to get them where they’re going. Now, people on earth, we have a privileged position because we don’t have the fullness of our merits, because we haven’t died yet. On the other hand, we can still grow in merit and we can still increase our charity. And most of all, we can perform acts of satisfaction. We can make up for things. We can pay debts. The saints can’t do that anymore because they’re at the end, they’re not doing any more satisfaction, right? They already did that. Those in purgatory, the time has ended for them to satisfy for this ends.
Fr. Hugh:
They are where they are. And the depends upon the loving prayers of the saints and our prayers. But we can pray for them, which is a satisfactory work. We can do penances for them, which is a satisfactory work. But most of all, according to St. Thomas, we can do works of mercy for them. And so Thomas says of all the three works, which we normally associate with lent. Prayer, fasting and alms giving, works of mercy are the most effective because that’s where charity is the most communicative, the most evident in its ability to share because the works of mercy are works we perform in order to share God’s love with other people. Whereas we pray for various intentions to glorify God, for own intentions, for others, but those present meritorious so we can offer rosaries. Even if our rosary is for our grandmother who’s alive, we can still gain the indulgence attached to it for someone who’s departed.
Fr. Hugh:
You know that you can still do that, but then penances are specifically for ourselves. We’re trying to mortify our own weaknesses, but we can still offer the satisfactory value of the penance for the dead, but it’s not as direct or obvious. So St. Thomas says, “Mercy towards those in need is the most powerful means of helping the departed except for one,” which I’m going to mention in a second. Most powerful means so if you want to get off your sofa and help the poor by helping in a soup kitchen or giving to the poor or giving alms to someone on the street or depriving yourself of something so that someone else can have something, or going through your old clothes and give… Whatever you need to do. You don’t have to wait for some big government program. You can do it right now, and you can offer that up for the souls of the faithful departed.
Fr. Hugh:
And that will be of a great benefit. That’s why traditionally, even Protestants have this now, when someone dies, they offer gifts in memory of the person. They don’t say, “For the repose of the soul of so-and-so,” but that’s where it comes from.
Cy:
It’s that impulse.
Fr. Hugh:
Right. That impulse and that [crosstalk 00:21:59].
Cy:
To include them in his love.
Fr. Hugh:
Right. When we offer up all our satisfactory works, the whole value of all our satisfactions, that is, the value for the remission of sin through charity, which that’s what makes it communicable of all of our good actions. We can just offer all these for the souls of the departed every day. And our merit will increase because the merit of doing that is very great because it means we’re not saving up for ourselves. God is just, and he’ll… You know, we’re running a little risk there. It’s not an excuse to be bad, but let’s just say, if we offer up all of our satisfactory value of our works; all our sufferings, all our pains, everything for the departed, we will reap a great benefit, because we’re going to make a lot of friends over there. We’re helping people enter into eternal life.
Fr. Hugh:
If you get someone into heaven more swiftly, if you will, what does one instant mean in that sense? I mean, if someone’s asking you for something and you can hand them that with which they will enter into perfect and eternal blessedness, and all it is is giving someone a cup of cold water or holding your tongue and being patient, or doing penance or something like that, then it’s a gain to you by merit that will give you great joy in heaven. And to them, it’s everything.
Cy:
Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
Because they don’t like to wait even a second longer than they need to. So we can gain indulgence for them. Inform yourself about that. We don’t have time for that today. We can do all kinds of things, but the biggest means of helping them of course, is the sacrifice of Christ because that is all the satisfaction and all the merit of Jesus Christ and his merits are communicable. For us, our satisfactions are the value of the debt paying satisfaction of our charity that we can give to someone else but our merit is our own. But Jesus is merit all for us. So his merits, his satisfactions, his intercession for us, his power of the sacrifice of the cross is all there in the mass. And so when we have masses offer to the departed, or we pray for them at mass or make that particular intention, that’s very powerful indeed.
Fr. Hugh:
That’s why the church encourages mass for the dead on All Souls Day. All priests of the Catholic church are given the privilege of saying mass three times, even if they don’t have a public mass to say.
Cy:
And they should, because it does so much good.
Fr. Hugh:
They should. They’re not required to, but they should. And it’s right there, it’s in the missal. And if you’re doing the old mass, you can do all three in a row. The new mass, it says you have to do them at different times of the day. It makes it a little less convenient.
Fr. Hugh:
But in any case, you can do three masses. The first one for all the faithful departed, whatever dead you want to pray for. The second one for all the faithful departed, and the third for whatever souls the Pope’s intention has in mind.
Cy:
Oh, okay.
Fr. Hugh:
So those are the three things that priests can do. If the priests are listening, don’t leave those masses out. [inaudible 00:24:46] room if you have to, of people at your parish. Priests, you’re perishing, it’s weird that you’re saying messages by yourself. Just do that, but do it where they can’t see. So in any case, that’s the most powerful means of helping the departed. The holy mass, which is always their consolation and their liberation.
Cy:
Makes me want to go to heaven [crosstalk 00:25:04].
Fr. Hugh:
Yeah, yeah. Right. We can get out of all this complicated stuff and just go straight there and just look on God and each other and be very, very happy.
Cy:
Are they not worried about the election?
Fr. Hugh:
They are [inaudible 00:00:25:14], they don’t worry about anything.
Cy:
Yeah.
Fr. Hugh:
Let’s just say they see it from a perspective that would totally blow our minds.
Cy:
Yeah. You were going to tell me a story and that’s why your fingers are crossed, which I love that you kept them crossed for 20 minutes.
Fr. Hugh:
It’s a great story about the question of getting into heaven. And I may have mentioned it in this venue before, I don’t know. But there was an old Irish Dominican who was a professor at the Angelicum in Rome, their university. But he had stints in New York when had to do, and he was walking down the street in New York, in his Roman collar and his black suit, as they did back then. Back then, not even the Catholic bishops like the religious to wear their habits out. It was always a black suit. Okay?
Fr. Hugh:
And now, of course, now all the young Dominicans, they wear their habit all over the place. So it’s changed. But, anyway. That’s a good thing, by the way, if any young Dominicans are listening. But any case… As long as you’re obeying your spirits. But he was walking on the street, he’s a very brilliant scholar. And the street preacher walked up to him and said, “Reverend, are you saying saved?” And he said… He was Irish. He said, “Well, yes. But it was a close call, and I don’t like to talk about it.”
Cy:
I love the “I don’t like to talk about it.”
Fr. Hugh:
He’s very Irish Catholic. First, it was close call, and I don’t like to talk about it.
Cy:
Because… That’s very Irish. We just don’t get into the gory details.
Fr. Hugh:
No, no. I mean, It’s a close call.
Cy:
That is beautiful father. May we have your blessing before we go father.
Fr. Hugh:
[foreign language 00:26:56].
Cy:
Amen.
Fr. Hugh:
Amen. And for the departed, [foreign language 00:27:12]. Amen.
Cy:
Amen.
Cy:
I don’t know why it makes me so happy to think that Saint Teresa of Avila can talk with Our Lady right now, that they can have conversations. I guess it makes me happy because I want to be able to do that when I die. It also makes me happy to know that praying and more than anything, giving alms and offering masses for the dead actually is a great act of charity. It may seem small to us, but as father said, it’s of infinite value to those who benefit from it on the other side. So thanks very much for joining us. Please, don’t forget to pray for the dead. Father Hugh, when he was our chaplain, reminded us of this constantly. That the Catholic life is a life of praying for the dead, of offering our sufferings for the dead, of giving alms to the poor and asking for the benefits of that to be given to the dead.
Cy:
You can do it. It’s an important part of our Catholic life, and a really joyful part of our Catholic life. Hey, if you want to suggest a future show, maybe you want to comment on this show or a past show, you can always reach us at our email address, focus@catholic.com. focus@catholic.com. We want to hear from you. Subscribe to Focus, so you’ll be notified when new episodes are available. And you can support us financially, if you value what we do. It does cost money to get this done each week, a couple of times each week, maybe we’ll even expand and do more of them. That’s kind of up to you. You can visit, givecatholic.com and make your pledge there and help us to maintain this podcast and maybe grow it in the future. givecatholic.com.
Cy:
I’m Cy Kellett, your host. We’re grateful every time you join us. Thanks for being with us. We’ll see you next time God willing, right here on Catholic Answers Focus.