Host Cy Kellett welcomes Jimmy Akin to discuss if Catholics have too much of an emphasis on Mary.
Transcript:
Cy: Why aren’t you Catholic, Dan?
Caller: There’s probably a little bit more than this, but two of the things that are kind of sticking points for me are the admiration of Mary and days of Obligation. I understand honoring Mary. I actually participate in the rosary a couple times a week.
Cy: Good for you.
Caller: My son is. My son converted to Catholicism a few years back, and every time he’s in town, we go to a Latin Mass. So there’s a lot that I’ve learned to appreciate being a Southern Baptist that I never thought I would. But these things are kind of. I mean, it seems like there’s. In my opinion, there’s a little too much attention paid to Mary. Not that she doesn’t deserve.
Jimmy Akin: Okay, well, do you have any concrete examples of what you regard as too much or is it more of just a general impression?
Caller: It’s more of a general. I mean, when I go to the Catholic churches, I see a lot of statues of Mary. And I was. I was looking and at one point it seemed like I. And maybe I. Maybe I didn’t notice everything correctly, but it seemed like I almost saw more statues or images of Mary than I did of Christ himself.
Jimmy Akin: Well, okay, so I guess a few thoughts on this one, and then we’ll deal with your concern about holy days of obligation. So I would be careful about anecdotal impressions of, well, how many statues of. Who are found in a given church. I can’t say because I haven’t seen the churches you’ve been in. I can’t say that they definitely don’t have more statues of Mary than of Jesus, but I would be very surprised if they did. Jesus is God and Mary is not. And Catholics recognize that. And so there has been in many Protestant circles for the last 500 years a narrative that tries to make it sound like Catholics care more about Mary than they do about Jesus. And given that there’s 1.4 billion Catholics in the world, I’m sure that there are some somewhere who have a disordered sense of priorities. But this is more of a hostile narrative towards the Catholic Church than something that’s actually true. So, you know, I wouldn’t go with just an impression like this. You know, I’d. Look, if you’re concerned about how many statues there are and who thereof, I’d count them up. And I wouldn’t forget that it’s mandated by church law that during Mass there needs to be a crucifix with the body of Christ on it and on or near the altar. There is no such requirement about statues of Mary being in the church or near the altar. So if you’re concerned about them, I’d make sure that you’re not letting an anti Catholic narrative that you may have heard in the past influence your perception of things. In other words, I just recommend, you know, checking out perceptions and see, is this perception accurate or could it be looked at in some other way, or is it even just inaccurate? Now, I say all that assuming one should care about exactly how many statues there are. But given. So, Dan, being a Southern Baptist, I assume you’ve read the Gospel of John, is that correct?
Caller: Yes.
Jimmy Akin: Okay. And then you’ll be familiar with Jesus’s high priestly prayer in John chapter 17, where he prays for the unity of all of his followers. Right? You’re familiar with that?
Caller: Yes.
Jimmy Akin: Okay. So we know the will of our Lord is for us to be united, and we therefore shouldn’t separate over issues that aren’t particularly serious. So even if it were true that Catholics put more emphasis on Mary than you’re comfortable with, sounds like it couldn’t be that much more. Since you’re already, you know, showing respect to Mary and you’re saying the rosary and things like that, so you recognize that it’s good to have, you know, honor for the mother of our Lord. And if there’s a. You may feel that Catholics do it a little more than you prefer. But my question would be, is that something we ought to separate over? Is that something that we should let divide us? Just a matter of emphasis. If we both agree that. That Mary, as the mother of our Lord, needs to be honored, and certainly he honored her because he obeyed the Ten Commandments, which include honor your father and mother. And Mary herself says in Luke that, you know, behold, now all generations are called me blessed, and we are a generation, so we need to honor her, too. If it’s just a question of is there a little too much honoring going on here, that, to me, sounds like something that we shouldn’t let divide us. We should seek to build bridges and not really sweat the fact that, well, some Christians put a little more emphasis here than is my personal taste. Also, there are varying degrees of emphasis in different Catholic communities. It’s not all the same. So I guess that’s kind of what I’d say about Marian devotion. The other subject you raised was about holy days of obligation. Can you help me understand your concern here?
Caller: I recognize the importance of being in church, and I guess to it, to a certain degree, it’s just the word obligation. It seems odd to me that you know, not going to church on certain days is. Is a sin.
Jimmy Akin: So let. Let me. And that’s all good. And you’re right, the term. The term holy days of obligation is. Is not commonly used in many Protestant circles, including in the Southern Baptist tradition. So, you know, I understand how it can sound unfamiliar, but again, differences of language is something that I don’t think should. So if it’s just the word obligation. Well, if it’s a matter of phrasing, then I would suggest that something that shouldn’t divide us because St. Paul says twice actually not to quarrel about words. So if we agree on the substance, we shouldn’t let the way we phrase what we teach separate us, because that’s just language differences. And different communities have different languages. And the New Testament even tells us not to quarrel about words. So let’s think about the concept of what’s supposed to happen on holy days of obligation, or what Catholics refer to as holy days of obligation. You’re right that, that we need to be in church. And you’re right that that’s what the Lord’s will is, that we worship him in church and we worship as a community. There are other verses in scripture that back that up, like when Hebrew says not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together, as is the custom of some. That pertains to. Yeah, we need to go to church on certain times as to worship God as a corporate body. But what about the idea of an obligation? Think about the Ten Commandments. Do the Ten Commandments have any requirements in them about doing or not doing things on certain days?
Caller: True.
Caller: Yeah, they do.
Caller: That’s a good point.
Jimmy Akin: And these are commandments, right? They’re not 10 suggestions or recommendations.
Caller: Right.
Jimmy Akin: So using the word commandment instead of obligation, you could call these holy days of commandment rather than holy days of obligation. They’d mean the same thing. But basically, the Jewish Sabbath was a holy day of obligation for the Jewish people. Now it’s subsequently been replaced by the Christian Lord’s day, you know, the day of our Lord’s resurrection. But it’s fundamentally the same thing. And actually of all people often don’t realize this, but in church law, Sunday is the primordial holy day of obligation. It’s the king of the holy days of obligation. There are a few additional days in the year that commemorate some special things that are also holy days of obligation. But Sunday is the big and most frequent holy day of obligation. And it corresponds to. It’s not the same as the Jewish Sabbath, but it corresponds to the principle we see in the Ten Commandments that we need to devote adequate time to worship and rest. So if the Jewish people had a holy day of obligation and the Sabbath was just one of them, but if they had this concept, and Catholicism has the same concept, then I would say that this, that if I were in your position, I wouldn’t stress about because there’s a rational biblical basis for it, even if the term is a little unfamiliar. What do you think of that?
Caller: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
Caller: Okay. Well, I hope that this has given you some stuff to think about. I have a. My psychic sense tells me Psy is about to say we need to go to the break. But I hope that. I hope that that gives you some things to think about.