Cy Kellett is joined by Trent Horn to discuss a heartfelt question from a listener grappling with his faith after sexual abuse scandals in the Church.
Transcript:
Cy: The scandal of learning about priests who were involved in sexual misconduct and others who were involved with hiding or covering that up. You’re just like, no, I don’t need any more of this. And you stop going to Mass.
Caller: Yes. When I look at the priests that I was around as an altar boy growing up in Omaha, Nebraska, I just have a fear and a little bit of anger at the leadership.
Cy: Covered it up.
Cy: I think a lot of people are feeling that way, Trent. A lot of people are feeling that way.
Trent: Yeah. A few nights ago, I had some coarse words. I was angry.
Trent: When people disappoint you. But, you know, sometimes. So, I mean, it’s funny. We have these standards and we get mad when other people disappoint us, but we always make excuses when we disappoint ourselves. No, it’s always somebody else’s fault when we disappoint ourselves. Well, it’s because he did this or my parents raised me this way or so.
And William, I guess here’s how I would start with my reply to you. I think it’s acceptable for you to be angry. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians says, “Be angry, but don’t let the sun set on your anger.” That’s a perfectly normal feeling to have a sense of anger and betrayal at some bishops and shepherds, priests who betrayed the flock, who were shepherds, wolves masquerading in shepherd’s clothing.
So I think it’s unhealthy when we just suppress anger or resentment or, you know, this feeling about a righteous anger, thinking that something’s wrong and should be made right. It’s an error. It’s unhealthy for us to just suppress it and pretend like it’s not there because it’s okay to feel that way.
But the other extreme is to let that anger consume us. Because here’s the thing. The devil loves using righteous anger because righteous anger, being mad at injustice, is a good thing. I mean, Jesus got really mad when the temple was being defiled, so he drove out the money changers.
That’s what’s hard about anger, is that it can serve good, but the devil loves to twist it also to serve his purposes, to turn it into an unrighteous, vengeful, malicious anger that eats up our hearts inside. And we just kind of turn inwards and get angrier and angrier and angrier and fall into pride and other things like that.
So I would caution you, your feelings towards bishops and priests who have done this, it’s okay to feel a sense of righteous anger, but what are we going to do with it? Are we going to turn it inwards and just stew in anger, or are we going to turn it outwards and say, “God help the church, now please give us reform?”
Two analogies I think might be helpful for you that have helped me.
Number one, the priest, no matter how sinful he is, if he says the Mass validly, that is Jesus in the Eucharist. That is Jesus’s body, blood, soul, and divinity, ready to dwell within our very being. That Jesus is there waiting for us in the Eucharist, no matter what the priest has done.
So let me ask you a question. If you were walking along the road and you saw a diamond ring that was covered in dog feces, what would you do? Let’s say it’s a one-carat diamond ring, but it’s covered in dog feces, what would you do?
Caller: I would probably retrieve it some way without the feces.
Trent: Amen to that. Yeah. One-carat diamond ring. As someone who went in six years ago to get married and I’m shopping for rings, I’m thinking, show me a one-carat diamond ring. Show me a cubic zirconium instead. Wait a second, I’m like, whoa, never mind. No, my wonderful wife does not have a cubic zirconium. She has a wonderful, wonderful jewel that is representative of the jewel that she is as well.
But right, but you think about there, we wouldn’t just say, “Hey, look at this, this is terrible. This is gross, disgusting, whatever.” And we wouldn’t walk on. We realize, wow, look at this treasure here. I mean, what a shame, this treasure is covered in dog feces. But I’m going to find a way to get past the dog feces to get this beautiful treasure.
And so I would say, is not the Eucharist worth more than any diamond or gem or pearl we would find? And getting to it involves just going to Mass and sitting there. We don’t have to wade through feces. We have a priest who I would say in all probability is a good holy man who is struggling with sin just like the rest of us and faithfully serving God.
So we should not pass by the diamond ring because of the waste it’s in. We should pray to God, we should retrieve it and then work to clean up the church that we have, but not forsake the jewel that God gave us.
Number two, William. I would say that the feeling you have towards priests, that they are, you know, an uneasiness around them. I would just ask. Imagine, imagine you knew a woman, a friend, a female friend who had been a victim of rape and she knows that there is a not small number, not insignificant number of men who rape. I mean, there are stories all the time about men who commit rape, rapists in jail.
And imagine she said to you, “William, I don’t feel comfortable being around you because you’re a man. You know, what if you are just like those other men who are rapists?” I don’t know, I think that you would feel like, well, I’m not that way and I’m sorry you feel that way, but I mean, don’t paint all men this picture and have this fear around me when I care for you just because a few men have done these terrible things.
Do you see how that prejudice she would have towards you would be unfounded and that would harm a good relationship that could be there? How it’s similar if we have kind of an irrational fear of priests or uneasiness because of what a few priests have done. Do you see the analogy, the connection I’m making?
Caller: I do. And I’ve often thought, you know, don’t label all priests brothers, etc. I was Jesuit educated. And it’s not exclusive to the Catholic.
Trent: It’s a human problem that we have to remember that sexual abuse, sin is a human problem. One thing that’s helped me, you know, sometimes we get disenchanted and we think, you know, well, these guys are really priests. If they’re really in persona Christi, they wouldn’t do this kind of stuff. And this shows. It’s all, it’s all bunk and people will think that.
But if you think about it, the faith is true. If God wants to save us from sin and the devil wants to ensnare us in sin, and it’s through priests we receive sacraments to save us from sin—confession, Eucharist in normal cases, average cases, baptism—then if the devil is real, his number one target is going to be priests. That will be his number one target to go after.
So we should not be surprised in the slightest that priests will be tempted and burdened by temptation and sin, that the devil’s gonna. He’s the number one enemy for them.
So the answer, I guess, is what are we going to do? Are we going to, when the devil, when he beats a priest or a priest gives into sin, are we gonna cheer alongside the devil and be like, “Look at how bad he was. Oh, I knew it. Look how bad he was.” Or are we gonna be mourning with God and always praying for their repentance and conversion and praying that other people don’t follow this ruse that the devil has given us?
I think if we look at it that way, we can see that sin, even holy people, even clergy engage in, is not a sign the faith is false. It is a sign the faith is under attack and we have to batten down the hatches and pray and stay close to the sacraments to weather the storm of this life that we are in and not jump ship.
Because if we do that, leaving the church is like we’re at a storm at sea. “Ah, the boat’s not going the way I’d like it to.” We’re not going to fare. We’ll fare far worse in the open ocean than we would on the ship, on the bark of Peter, as the church used to be called so much in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
So keep that in mind. And then a good book, I forget the name of the author, but it’s a book called *Praying for Priests* is one that I would recommend as well for you to look at.
But here, if you’re discouraged, take your anger, take your frustration, turn it back to God and say, “God, I give this all back to you,” and I pray for these priests as hard as I can for them to be holy.
And then just go to confession and say, “You know, Father, I don’t know you. You know, but I know that if you say this confession, Christ is speaking through you to forgive sins.” Seek God’s forgiveness first, then continue to go to Mass and pray for the church.
Because we need people like you, who care, who will pray to continue to reform and lead the church to holiness. Don’t leave the church because of what a few bad people have done. Stay with her. So I hope you’ll do that.
Cy: William, Christ wants to meet you again in the Eucharist.
Are you ready to go back?
Caller: Oh, oh, I know that, yes.
Very good. Good stuff, you guys.
Cy: Thank you so much. And listen, call anytime. We’re here five days a week. God bless you, brother.
And I’ll ask our listeners to pray for you as well. William, thanks for calling!