In this clip, Cy Kellett welcomes Joe Heschmeyer to discuss a caller’s journey from Catholicism to Calvinism and his recent draw back to the Catholic Church. Joe explores the theological implications and the significance of the caller’s experiences, shedding light on the relationship between faith and personal belief.
Transcript:
Caller: So God decided to wait 69 years. Yeah, yeah. Nothing for him. Why aren’t you Catholic, Mike? I originally was.
Caller: Okay.
Caller: I was baptized okay. Because my father was a Catholic. And so I was baptized originally as a Catholic. And then he left the church. And I was raised in basically not necessarily atheist home. And then later in life I became. I gravitated to Protestant churches. Several in the last 10 or 15 years, I’ve been, I think, more of a Calvinist Reformed Christian. And why I’m feeling drawn back to the Catholic Church now. And I’m not sure where it began or. Or what it was, but I found more and more drawn to Catholic apps or Catholic commentary, etc. And I’m not sure what it is. I can’t explain it. I’ve never had a hostility to the Catholic Church. I know a lot of Protestant and some friends of mine have some. Almost. Almost open hostility. I’ve never felt that way. If I was to describe the Catholic Church, I would say I refer to it as Holy Mother Church. And that’s how I always kind of felt, you know, when I thought about
Joe Heschmeyer: it sounds like a seed was planted in you in your baptism. The, the tug upon the thread. If you’ve.
Caller: Yeah, but that was.
Caller: If you’ve ever read.
Caller: Yeah, it’s like. So God decided to wait 69 years? Yeah, yeah. That’s nothing for him.
Joe Heschmeyer: When was Isaac born? Like Abraham was an old man. You know, you’ve got years ahead of you before, you know, like that’s. That’s part of the providence of God and he’ll use all of that like there’s no wasted time with God. I think this is. No, let me just say this on this point because you’ve definitely had a journey and it sounds like your journey has been hard in some ways. Like I, I am sure without you having to say it, like your dad leaving the church and growing up without that sense of what we’re here for and purpose and all of that, like having that rootedness. I’m sure that there were some hard moments in, in your 69 years, but I’m also sure confident that God worked through them and is working through them and is taking every part of your journey from your dad having you baptized to your journey through evangelicalism and Calvinism in a way that he’s not done with you yet. And so I’m curious into how all of those things are going to come together, but I suspect that he is going to use them to have the. I mean, I guess maybe put it this way to have the rigorous mind of a Calvinist, to have the warm heart of an evangelical, to have all these things kind of brought together makes one a good Catholic. To have this combination of faith and reason, to have the union of head and heart. These are all things. So it could be with some of us, it just took us longer for God to sort us out. Maybe it just took you 69 years for God to work on you and to say, all right, now you’re ready. John the Baptist, seriously, he never enters the church in the fullness and we don’t know why. Like, Christ doesn’t seem to invite him other people. He invites him to these seemingly strange times. Yeah, go ahead.
Caller: There is a terrific Protestant pastor who was discussing in a sermon, but he was just talking about the thief on the cross and how he. And whether you’re Protestant or Catholic, the story was he found interesting because he said the guy never attended the Bible study. He never does know about the theology of justification or anything like that or whatever, the sacraments. And like, he would have looked at you like, I have no idea what you’re talking about. And so he said, like the man ultimately was told by Christ on the cross, you’re going to be with me today, irrespective of, you know. So I, you know, like, that guy was probably a pretty unsavory character until he was on the cross. And then, you know, he, for whatever reasons, you know, the one thief. Yeah. Things didn’t work out so well for him.
Caller: True.
Caller: But for the, but for the thief who Jesus said, you will be with me today in paradise. Again, you know, it depends on the individual and what, and like you say, what, what, what God does. I, I accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I praise God, existence of God. I know that God is what he is. And I know that there’s, you know, many, many times during the week, during a month, during the year, I sit back and think, now he’s doing it again in public. That I know, I know he’s working. I know it because it’s just, you know, there’s no such thing as a coincidence with him. And. But I found lately by investigating more Catholicism, a lot of the things that people say is really weird, like the rosary, that’s so weird. But when you get. Have it explained to you, when you have a lot of the sacraments explained to you, they’re not weird at all. They’re actually just.
Caller: That’s right.
Caller: The rosary is actually an excellent disciplinary way to focus you on your spiritual needs and, and also your spiritual Requirements. Because I think a lot of times people tend to think that it’s all about being spiritual. It’s also about obedience. God, you know, God told the Israelite people, you are my children. But the, the deal is you have to, you have to follow my commandments. And if you don’t, well, it’s like your own children. What, what’s going to happen? They’re going to be punished.
Joe Heschmeyer: Yeah, there’s a lot there. But I think I would say this. It seems like God is at work stirring up something within you and that you have rightly discerned that this is a movement in the direction of Catholicism and that you’re finding that confirmed the more you look into it. Is that a fair description?
Caller: Yeah.
Caller: Yeah, I would say keep being faithful to that.
Caller: The most important point that comes to my mind is to ask the question, before the Reformation, let’s say, okay, the church had been around Christianity, been around for 1500 years, as specifically as Christianity. And maybe this is the point some people haven’t thought of. I’m not that original that I’m a genius, but for 1500 years, there was no Protestantism, there was no Calvinism. There were various heresies in that. But for 1500 years, like, if you are Catholic and that’s, that’s, that’s you’re going to hell because you’re a Catholic or something like that or whatever, then to me the question would be, well, what happened? What’s happened to everybody for 1500 years?
Joe Heschmeyer: Right? Or maybe a slightly different way to put it is if, if God wanted us all to be Methodist, Baptist, whatever, why did he not make that clearer? Why did no one seem to know that for 15, 16, 17, 1900? And if he doesn’t care which type of Protestant you are, why doesn’t he? It seems very strange that he’s like, choose one of these 10 options. I don’t really care. I want you to all be one. But just choose one of those 10. Like, what are we doing here? So it makes, like, the Catholic claim to be the one true church, strikes many people as arrogant or offensive. And it would be arrogant if it was a church that we’d built ourself. If you could point to some reformer who built the Catholic Church, yeah, that’d be arrogant. But as a matter of fact, if we can say, look, here’s a good amount of historical evidence that we really do go back to the time of Jesus and Jesus wants us all to be part of the church, I don’t think it’s arrogant at all. And in fact, I think it’s the only way you’re going to ever get union within the church. Otherwise, you’re going to have a thousand different people who say, well, according to my read of scripture, we should go this way and not that way. And they’re never going to agree. I should probably take some other calls. But, Mike, it is a blessing to talk to you.
Caller: Mike. What a. I have to agree with Joe.
Caller: What a blessing. We’ll be right back with more why aren’t you Catholic?
Caller: On Catholic Answers Live.