Audio only:
Mark Wahlberg and Mel Gibson share a few thoughts on what makes a good “faith” movie as we discuss their excellent new film Father Stu. After that we get the lowdown on the real Father Stu from his friend and fellow priest Father Bart Tolleson.
Cy Kellett:
Finally a great movie about the priesthood. Mark Wahlberg, Mel Gibson and Father Bart Tolleson, next. Hello, and welcome to Focus, the Catholic Answers podcast for living, understanding and defending your Catholic faith. I’m Cy Kellett, your host. Maybe you heard about the new movie opening this week, Father Stu. It’s a movie about a priest, a real priest, a guy who really lived and died just recently, just within the last few years. Mark Wahlberg heard the story and decided to make a movie out of it. He got some big Hollywood people together and they made a really, really fine movie.
Cy Kellett:
We got to see it, and we were just taken with it. That this really does what you would hope that a faith movie would do. Mel Gibson’s in it. Lots of big stars are in it, but more than anything, it’s just well written and well directed and it has a beautiful person, a beautiful man, a beautiful priest right at his heart.
Cy Kellett:
We did a couple interviews, three interviews, as a matter of fact, with folks involved in the film or with Father Stu, we thought you’d like to see him. We start with Mark Wahlberg who put the whole thing together. Here’s what Mark Wahlberg had to say. Mark Wahlberg, thank you very much for being with us on Catholic Answers Focus.
Mark Wahlberg:
Thank you for having me.
Cy Kellett:
We got to see the movie, the staff here got to see the movie. Wow. What a great movie. We just thought you did a fantastic job. Congratulations on a really fine film.
Mark Wahlberg:
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Cy Kellett:
I got to tell you, it’s a movie that takes Christian faith very, very seriously, but it’s funny from beginning to end. I mean, we were in a theater full of people who were laughing through a lot of the movie. Was that part of the… Is that a strategy? Do you want to tell a faith story? Why include so much humor?
Mark Wahlberg:
Well, I think we want to, yeah, we want to make people laugh. We want to make people cry and ultimately inspire them to continue to pursue their faith and certainly not lose hope in these very difficult and challenging times. Stu is a very colorful guy. I think the first time I heard the story and then the second time, I just thought he was fascinating, because he was so wildly funny and unpredictable and it just… We want to also to make the movie edgy and real.
Mark Wahlberg:
I think you see a lot of faith based films that are very kind of safe.
Cy Kellett:
Yes.
Mark Wahlberg:
This movie is just, it’s about tough grace, a tough mercy and of course there’s these are challenging and tough times. I think, it’s one thing to preach to the choir, there’s another thing to convert people and bring people in, and also challenging people to do a little bit better, do a little bit more and encouraging people to consider the priesthood and knowing how much they could do if they’ve ever kind of had that urge to see or pursue that. If that was their calling potentially, but everything I heard about Stu was funny and heartwarming and heartbreaking all at the same time. We wanted to make something that was just kind of brutally honest.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. You made me cry in front of the staff though and I really didn’t appreciate that. I was pouring out tears at a certain point.
Mark Wahlberg:
Well, they, now they realize you’re probably a little bit more human.
Cy Kellett:
Probably.
Mark Wahlberg:
They probably appreciate you a little bit more.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah, maybe. It’s a conversion story and conversion is a hard thing, because it’s not a visual thing. It’s usually a gradual internal, but I wondered if in considering making Father Stu’s story, the fact that his conversion is actually visually. It can be depicted visually. It’s very visually dramatic. Did that affect your choice about this story?
Mark Wahlberg:
Well, really kind of me being challenged to do more with my faith and more my representing my spirituality and doing God’s work was a real challenge for me. It was, this was like, “Okay, I’ve been very blessed, very fortunate to spend a lot of time focusing on me, building my career, building my platform.”
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
That was about say, “Okay, what are you going to do with that?” God didn’t put me in this position to keep just making action movies. I want to make movies that had some real meaning and substance and would hopefully impact people in a very positive way.
Cy Kellett:
It sure seems like it’s going to and watching it, you at the end credits this name, Rosalind Ross comes up, she wrote it and directed it.
Mark Wahlberg:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cy Kellett:
We’re all like, “Who’s Rosalind Ross?”
Mark Wahlberg:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
Did you find a superstar when you found her?
Mark Wahlberg:
Yes. I always felt like it was a major, major discovery. Now I had read some of her other work, obviously this is her directorial debut, but she’s written quite a number of screenplays. She’s not Catholic. She felt like that would be the biggest challenge. But what she did really relate to right away, was somebody who was in search of their calling. I felt like once I realized what she was able to put on the page with very little direction, that if she could put on the page, she could put it on the screen.
Mark Wahlberg:
I felt like definitely what better thing to do than to give a first timer a shot? For her to deliver in the way that she did is absolutely amazing. But I really feel like this movie has been blessed and I prayed for intercession along the way, and for everything to have lined up the way it has, the response to the film, the kind of release that we’re getting with the big major studio, the reaction that we’re getting, it’s just, it’s been, it’s been, it all happens for a reason as you know.
Cy Kellett:
It does indeed. I’m sure the blessed mother was with you through all of that. Because the depiction of her is beautiful.
Mark Wahlberg:
I asked mom, I asked dad, I asked son and I asked Stu, and everybody else that’s been a positive influence in my faith in my life to kind of help us along the way.
Cy Kellett:
Well, I have to say there, for a Christian, you go to the movie, you see a faith kind of a movie that you know is about faith in some way.
Mark Wahlberg:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Cy Kellett:
In addition to enjoying the movie, you walk out kind of relieved like, “Oh it’s not another,” I mean, I guess there’s two things. It works as a faith story, but it has to work as a movie too. There’s a lot of faith stories that are on film that don’t work as movies.
Mark Wahlberg:
Yes.
Cy Kellett:
I almost want to say what’s the secret Mark? Tell the other Christian filmmakers. What’s the secret? How do you make a human film about a fantastic, interesting guy, that’s also a really solid faith movie?
Mark Wahlberg:
Well, I think every body’s so busy trying to play it safe. I think, this is a first in that you’ve got big time talent, both in front of and behind the camera, big time studio behind it.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
Releasing it just like it’s a mainstream film, just happens to have this story, incredible story of this guy, troubled guy from Montana who finds his calling as a priest and does these amazing things. My focus now will be to continue to make a lot more faith based content, film, television, scripted, unscripted long form, short form. I don’t want to give away too many secrets, because I really want to kind of continue to change and elevate the game.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
I wouldn’t call it even a genre, because there’s lots of different ways to tell these kinds of stories in different genres. But I think, I don’t know, we just, I’ve spent 30 some odd years making films and it was all in preparation to make this one, both as a producer and an actor and a storyteller.
Cy Kellett:
Well you made a beautiful one and I say, so you come out of the movie and it’s all different kind of Catholics there had got to see this movie, and some are like, “Well the language,” and I thought, “Well, the language,” that’s like, I think most people kind of helped those people see this is an important part of making this artwork.
Mark Wahlberg:
Of course.
Cy Kellett:
You have to, in other words, you humanize the faith story.
Mark Wahlberg:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. I, look, we got a lot of pushback early on, because of the language with the archdiocese and various people, because they were worried and they didn’t really understand. Just like other people that I initially sent the script to, I don’t think they understood the tone of the movie, that there would be humor, that it would be uplifting, at the end of the day people would leave on an emotional high.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
And it would kind of challenge them to probably do a little bit more if they’re in a position to, help a little bit more, be a little bit more like Stu. But we all know who Jesus came to save. Right?
Cy Kellett:
Right.
Mark Wahlberg:
These are the people that we’re trying to talk to and especially young people, who may think, “Well, there’s too many rules, there’s too many regulations.” We want to remind them that this is much more of a love letter to the guy who died to build the church, than any of the other kind of rules and regulations. But you go to the gas station, you go anywhere, you hear this language all the time.
Cy Kellett:
Right.
Mark Wahlberg:
It’s language at the end of the day. Right.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
But the message of the most important thing, is in luring people in with humor and the language and all, and Stu was a rough and tumble guy, so there is some violence in there, but all the people that I show that were a little resistant in the beginning, completely embraced the movie and gave us the most glowing reviews that we possibly have.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
Because at the end of the day, what the movie’s really trying to say, is conveyed in the most clear and direct and effective way and it touches every single person that sees it, personally. Whatever they’re going through and I’ve talked to some of the more cynical people and to see their reaction after I told them, “This movie’s going to touch you.” “Yeah, whatever,” and then, oh my God, after the movie’s like, “Oh my God, I haven’t talked to my dad for years.”
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
“And I texted him right away and I had to tell him that I love him and if I didn’t tell him, he wouldn’t tell me, and now we’re going to lunch tomorrow.”
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mark Wahlberg:
And so many stories like that have come my way, and it really just put the smile on my face. But we always tried to push the edge a little bit more and Rosie would have to rein me in a little bit. But it’s like Stu it’s such a wild journey.
Cy Kellett:
Right.
Mark Wahlberg:
From where he started to where he ends up, and that’s why he was most effective. He has credibility when he is talking to inmates in prison. He has credibility when he is talking to these people that are working out in the forest, cutting trees down, or in the mines, and people that would wait hours and hours just to talk to him, because he was authentic and he had credibility and he lived that life. Those are the most effective people that I’ve encountered, as opposed to somebody who, somebody with real experience is always just a little, just a little bit more effective in what they’re trying to do.
Cy Kellett:
Well, I imagine that’s why you’re effective too, Mark. You’ve made a beautiful film. Congratulations on it. Thanks for taking the time with us.
Mark Wahlberg:
Thank you. I appreciate it very much.
Cy Kellett:
Mel Gibson played an important part in getting this movie made as well, and I’m sure in many ways was helpful to Mark Wahlberg in getting it made. He also gives a great performance in the film as Father Stu’s father. We got a chance to sit down just a few minutes to talk with Mel Gibson and here’s what Mel Gibson had to say. Mel Gibson, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us at Catholic Answers Focus.
Mel Gibson:
Hi, Cy.
Cy Kellett:
Hi. Congratulations on a beautiful film and a wonderful performance.
Mel Gibson:
Oh, thank you. Yeah, it’s very kind of you to say.
Cy Kellett:
We were watching the movie and the name Rosalind Ross came up at the end and I’d never had heard of her before. She wrote, directed the movie.
Mel Gibson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cy Kellett:
I just wanted to thank her. I wanted to be like, “You made a movie about Catholic faith that’s really works as a movie.” Is that kind of what attracted you to this?
Mel Gibson:
Yeah, I thought it worked very well. It really, and it didn’t sugar coat anything, and it didn’t preach to the choir.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mel Gibson:
It was just, kind of real and down and dirty and it sort of told the story of this man’s transformation and those he affected around him. I think, and she of course wrote it from the point of view of, I think she was raised in kind of an agnostic household.
Cy Kellett:
Oh, right. Okay.
Mel Gibson:
She wasn’t kind of in the fold or anything, she just was observing and which I think is the best way to tell the story.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. But boy, she really got Catholicism right. I would have bet she was a Catholic to tell you the truth.
Mel Gibson:
Oh yeah, no, no, no. She got, she asked questions about it.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mel Gibson:
It was like, and you go, “Oh,” you know. It’s like, you know.
Cy Kellett:
Well, I got to say we see a lot of faith movies that don’t really work as movies.
Mel Gibson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
Now you’ve made some of the greatest faith movies ever, maybe the greatest faith movie ever. Now, you’re starring in this one, please tell me the secret, so that other filmmakers will know. How do you make a movie that works as a movie, that also shares the faith?
Mel Gibson:
Well, I think it has to be compelling and you have to touch reality with it, so that, I think the secret here is, and I’m sure when you watch the film, you probably laughed in the first half.
Cy Kellett:
A lot. Yeah.
Mel Gibson:
A lot. Right. Okay. You’re laughing because you identify with it. It’s funny because you identify with it and that may means that there’s a grain of truth in it. I think what you’re looking for is just a little truth, not some kind of sanitized saccharin and preaching to the choir thing, but something that is out there, a compelling story, a true story, that kind of touches everyone no matter who they are.
Cy Kellett:
Speaking in a language that’s actual language, like people talk like that.
Mel Gibson:
They do. Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a movie about conversion. The primary conversion is Mark Wahlberg’s character, Father Stu.
Mel Gibson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
That’s a very visual conversion. Your character, it’s a very interior conversion.
Mel Gibson:
Yes.
Cy Kellett:
How did it feel portraying that? What do you draw on to portray that?
Mel Gibson:
Well, I believe to begin with.
Cy Kellett:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Mel Gibson:
It’s not a big leap for me to make, and it’s also, I’ve been on both sides of it, you know. I’ve stepped into the dark side and back on the… It’s like-
Cy Kellett:
Right.
Mel Gibson:
It’s easy to relate to coming home, and I think you’re right. It was an interior conversion and it mainly came from him observing and gaining a respect for his son through suffering.
Cy Kellett:
His son, yeah.
Mel Gibson:
And then being there for him.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Mel Gibson:
To accompany him for that journey, because he hadn’t been a great dad, but he turned into a great dad and it’s never too late to pick that stuff up. I think he, his spirit was seriously affected.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mel Gibson:
By that experience.
Cy Kellett:
The suffering was very real though and I have to say, you go into the movie, you’re like, “I didn’t expect to laugh for the whole first half of the film,” as you said.
Mel Gibson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
But then it’s Mark Wahlberg does a beautiful job.
Mel Gibson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
I guess that’s part of the story too, though. You got to tell the suffering in order to tell the full Christian story.
Mel Gibson:
Oh yeah. No. It’s a man’s journey from ego to humility and saying there’s something bigger than me. Let me try it that way and see how that works and then he’s hit with all these other things, these infirmities and stuff, and he understands it. He’s able to triumph over those things.
Cy Kellett:
Well, Mel Gibson, we’re very grateful for your time. A beautiful movie. Congratulations on it.
Mel Gibson:
Thank you.
Cy Kellett:
What a great pleasure to get to talk with Mark Wahlberg and Mel Gibson. We’re really grateful for the time we had with them. Both very fine actors and movie makers, but Father Stu was a real person. We thought, “Let’s not stop there. Let’s talk to somebody who knew Father Stu in real life, the real Father Stu. Father Bart Tolleson from the diocese of Helena, Montana was kind enough to come on and speak with us about the real Father Stu and whether or not this movie is the truth. Does it really depict the man as he was? Here’s what Father Tolleson had to say. Father Bart Tolleson from the diocese of Helena, Montana. Thank you for being with us.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Good to be here.
Cy Kellett:
You were a friend of Father Stu?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah. We were friends. We were ordained together, December 14th in 2007 and shared a lot of our priestly ministry together here in Helena.
Cy Kellett:
Have you seen the movie?
Father Bart Tolleson:
I have.
Cy Kellett:
Is it weird, like to see what you lived as life, portrayed in a movie?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah. The movie takes a lot of Stu’s friends and kind of composites them down to two characters, which is a smart thing to do. When I first saw the trailers, the previews of the film, I started laughing. I really was laughing hard, because it’s just, it was funny to see having lived with Stu and spent time with Stu and I know Bill Long and to see these actors playing these characters and to see events in his life portrayed on the big screen, it was just funny to me. Then I started laughing and actually at the movie, I thought it was witty.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I kind of liked the pacing and then seeing the film it was a little surreal, but after a little while you kind of get into the beat of the film and just let the film be the film and take the journey with Stu in the movie.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.Yeah. You kind of stopped comparing.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yes.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
You almost have to, because it doesn’t work if you compare it.
Cy Kellett:
Well, I mean, it is a movie, so I’m sure that much is compressed. Time is compressed. Lots of things are compressed in the movie.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
But are the basic kind of beats of the conversion of Father Stu as you remember them or as he related them?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yes. That’s the beautiful thing about the film, all the essential beats of Stu’s conversion, redemption, perseverance, it’s all there in the story and that gets it right.
Cy Kellett:
What was he like, when you knew him?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Well, I met him before he had his diagnosis. He was already starting to suffer. They just didn’t know why. He was fun. I mean, he was, he had a good sense of humor. He was very serious about the faith, but loved the faith. We talked a lot about the faith. He was fun to be with, he challenged me on some things, I challenged him on some things. I mean, that’s kind of a friendship.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah. You were ordained, what year, Father?
Father Bart Tolleson:
2007.
Cy Kellett:
So you and he were in the same ordination class?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Right. We were the only two in that class. We were ordained, we were both delayed. He was delayed, because of the disease and the negative evaluation from the seminary. I was delayed because I had transferred from Texas to Montana and Bishop Thomas wanted to give me just a little extra time to settle into Montana, before being ordained a deacon, and then a priest. So it ha happened that Stu and I were in the same class, but we were just delayed by six months.
Cy Kellett:
Was it both of your desire to has just serve as parish priests, maybe be pastors at some point? Was that the basic idea?
Father Bart Tolleson:
I think Stu and I, I mean our desire was just to be priests for God and we wanted to serve God.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I don’t think either one of us had any sort of angles on, “We want to do this or that.” Stu was always like, “I just want to serve the people, whoever I’m with is who I’m going to serve. Where I’m assigned, I serve the people,” and that was his philosophy and that’s the way he lived as priesthood. That’s the best way to live your priesthood. You go where God wants you to go and you serve who’s right in front of you, as best as you can.
Cy Kellett:
His life is very colorful the first half of the movie, before the, well, I mean, it’s still colorful after, but it’s a different kind of color, I guess.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
But did you know about that colorful past that he had?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Oh, yes. Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
He told me stories, many times he told me stories.
Cy Kellett:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Father Bart Tolleson:
He said, “Look what guy can do to me, what guy can do for anybody.”
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. He was not… He.
Cy Kellett:
S a convert, not just, I mean, it’s not, I mean to say it this way, he was not a man who merely received in the course of his Catholic life a vocation to the priesthood. He’s a man who wasn’t Catholic at all. Like he had no-
Father Bart Tolleson:
Right.
Cy Kellett:
Catholic in him. He-
Father Bart Tolleson:
He had no religion in him.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
It was really agnostic.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. In the film, I don’t really want to, I’m going to be careful how I ask questions, because I really don’t want to ruin the film for anyone. I thought it was a beautiful film. I really did. I was happy at the end of it and I thinking Mark Wahlberg, I think primary, primarily had who was the guy who put it all together, but along with the woman who wrote and directed it and Mel Gibson and everything.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah. Rosalind Ross. Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. They put together a heck of a good Catholic movie. I thought it was a good movie.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
I shouldn’t have said Catholic, but I felt like it was a heck of a good movie. It was also Catholic and that’s not always the case. I mean, some of these faith films, Father, I don’t know how many faith films you’ve gone to. Maybe you’re a big fan of all the faith films, but there’s a lot more faith in them than movie in them sometimes.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Well, it’s like, do you get one or the other, it’s either a faith film or it’s a good movie. You don’t typically get both
Cy Kellett:
But not with this. This is a different kind of thing. I won’t give a… I wanted, I didn’t want to give too much away, but your understanding was that his conversion or the beginnings of his conversion and beginning to understand that he was being called to be a priest with the motorcycle accident really happened in a way that’s like depicted in the movie? Was that dramatic and included?
Father Bart Tolleson:
It was. The one thing they did a little differently was they kind of switched the order of the true sequence. The motorcycle accident comes before the conversion.
Cy Kellett:
Okay.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I know why they did it in the film and it makes sense once you see the movie, but that accident really started it, because it opened himself to the fact that there was a God that had spared him and he didn’t know what that meant. He didn’t believe that before, and after that accident, somehow his heart was opened. When it was suggested, he look at the Catholic faith, he came at it seriously. He’d gone to a Catholic college, Carroll College. He had graduated from there. It’s actually where I’m assigned, and where I live. It was, the fact that he came out of here, not really knowing much about faith, he just rejected it. He had some friends that were priests, but he didn’t think much about faith.
Cy Kellett:
He’s not the first person who’s come through a Catholic college without having Catholic faith, however, Father.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yes. Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
In some ways, we’ve perfected that, in some Catholic colleges. But the… So I gather, so there’s something that’s not depicted in the movie is that he had gone to this Catholic college, but it is depicted in the movie that he’s a very, how should we say, plain spoken person. He just says it, he just says… Is that the truth about him?
Father Bart Tolleson:
That is the absolute truth. He was very plain spoken. He just blurted things out that he believed. It would hit you between the eyes.
Cy Kellett:
Really. When I spoke, I did get to speak with Mel Gibson for a few minutes about this movie and he mentioned the suffering as a key to conversion. You mentioned the motorcycle accident as a key to opening up the heart to conversion. Is, I mean, I suppose, I guess I want to ask you in general as a priest, but also in terms of Father Stu and his life, is suffering a key to the conversion experience?
Father Bart Tolleson:
That’s a good question, because I tell people, Stu didn’t go searching for suffering and we don’t need to go searching for suffering. Suffering is part of living. There’s going to be suffering just in being alive and that can take so many different forms. Oftentimes with our suffering, we wanted to say, “Well, why did God do this? Or there is no God, or this is such a horrible thing, no loving God will let this happen.” What Stu was able to do with his life and teach us to do with our sufferings, whatever they are, is like Jesus himself suffered and in that suffering, he loves us.
Father Bart Tolleson:
If we can take our suffering and offer it to God, we can understand the love of God in us, through our sufferings. Sometimes God moves us past suffering. Sometimes as in Stu’s case you carry the cross to the very end, but the love of God is present and Stu radiated that in the way he lived, the way he held to the faith and really just in his joy and his sense of humor, he kept intact. It was just, it was beautiful.
Cy Kellett:
In watching the movie, I thought this would be a great movie, if it was just a movie about this rough tough guy who lives a wild life and he becomes a Catholic because he falls in love with a woman who’s Catholic, and then becomes a priest. That could make a really good movie.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cy Kellett:
But the movie is something beyond just a really good movie, because it involves his illness and that and also I think that Wahlberg and Gibson and Rosalind Ross did a beautiful job of depicting how his illness, because he embraced it as something that God had given him, became fruitful. It became fruitful for other people.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yes. I mean, you’re right. That would be a good movie. Just he becomes a priest.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
But God doesn’t really let us off a hook and Stu never saw that priesthood was just kind of an end and the disease taught him that it’s you keep going, you keep moving forward all the way to the end. I think just the fact that it’s like this… Sometimes in our spiritual lives, we get a certain comfort level. “I’m good, and I’m doing all this stuff,” and God is always trying to move us forward a little bit more to grow a little bit more and not just to be kind of stagnant, as we move forward toward the Lord.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
That disease pushed him really close to God in a way that if he’d just been a priest, he would’ve been a great priest and I mean, in some ways he’d still be around and we could, I admit we wouldn’t have to miss him.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
But that disease really taught us something altogether new and so that’s why the story just keeps pushing in that way. It was true in Stu’s life. Absolutely.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah, and there’s a scene where people are coming to visit him and it’s clear that he’s ill, but they’re coming to visit him, because he’s a priest. They, I mean, it almost looks like a confession line. Maybe that’s what it is outside of the recovery hospital that he’s in. People just wanting to be near that kind of the sanctity that had come from him, embracing his illness.
Father Bart Tolleson:
The light, when he first moved into Big Sky and it was a convalescent center, a nursing home, if you want, if you will, Stu is kind of like, “I don’t know what I’m going to do. I want to try to find stuff to do.” I got him involved in a few things and, but over the time, his tenacity, his straight forwardness, his love, his availability to people, they just knew they could go up to the nursing home and see a really good priest and if they needed to have a confession, Stu would do that.
Father Bart Tolleson:
If they needed anointing, Stu would do that. He had to get help, but he could still do it. If they needed counsel Stu would do that. He would have mass, they would come there for mass, if they needed a good joke, Stu would do that. You’d just walk in there on any given day, and there’d be a line down the hall. The poor residents that had to live there with him, were having to maneuver around these lines, because they were just standing. They didn’t have anywhere else to go. Stu turned Big Sky Care Center for the time he lived there, into basically Big Sky Catholic church, because it was more of a church than a care center. It was really amazing.
Cy Kellett:
But what a model for all of us, that he didn’t say, “I got to get out of here and I got to overcome this.” I mean, he could, the disease was progressive and fatal, but he embraced his where he was and did what he could and it turned into something really powerful and beautiful just by humbly doing what he could.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
Were you shocked when you heard Mark Wahlberg wants to make his story into a movie? Or how did you, when you first hear all these Hollywood people, these Hollywood people are trying to make a movie out of it?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
What did you feel?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah, yeah. I didn’t really know what to think. I mean, I’m always a little skeptical of Hollywood.
Cy Kellett:
Really?
Father Bart Tolleson:
It was wonderful news. Yeah. Imagine. It was wonderful news. We didn’t know if it was, I mean, I also know that, for every 50 ideas in Hollywood, one of them gets made and then for every one that gets made, maybe one out every hundred is halfway decent. I didn’t know. The thing is Stu’s life is greater than any movie they could ever depict.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I mean, I was privileged just to be a witness to it and a friend to him and that in those times, and he just, it was just incredible. But I think it’s a great idea for a movie. I think it was really God’s work into Mark Wahlberg’s heart to get this movie made.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I mean, kind of opened his ears finally to receive this story. Mark Wahlberg could have given up on it, I mean, he had every reason to give up on it. It was hard thing to get put together and to get the right script and the right people. He didn’t, and he just said, “I kept praying and it just kept coming over and over and over.”
Father Bart Tolleson:
It’s one of those things that’s a little miracle that the fact that the film got made and hopefully there’ll be a lot of grace from the fact that it was made and that Mark Wahlberg stuck with it and God brought him Rosalind Ross and Mel Gibson is involved. That helps to make a better film.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. It really does feel. I mean, and when you hear, I mean, I’ve heard several interviews with Mark Wahlberg, I had the opportunity to do one myself and repeatedly he has talked about the fact that this was an act of perseverance and it came from a very strong sense in prayer that he needed to do this, but anybody else would… I mean, on human power, you would’ve given up and said, “No, this is just not going to get made.”
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah. I mean, I said, Mark’s Wahlberg has to suffer through this thing.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Stu suffered and Mark had to suffer and Stu was a priest for a little over six years and Mark had to suffer for a little over six years to get the movie made. Mark’s a different person, because he had to fight to get this thing made, versus just all coming together in the first week, you know?
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. Right, right. There’s a reason why the Lord doesn’t, why not everything is easy. Why it’s not always made for us. I mean, certainly you see that in Father Stu’s life and I think you’re right, this has a parallel and what appears to have been Mark Wahlberg’s experience. That had it been easy, it wouldn’t have been as beautiful as it was. It wouldn’t have produced the fruits that it produced.
Cy Kellett:
I do have to ask you about this. The language in the movie, especially the first half of the movie, is… I was in the movie with several sailors and they were embarrassed. They were by the shocking saltiness of the language. They were like, “We would as sailors, we would never speak like this.” Then there’s some truck drivers got up and walked out and there was the… I’m only kidding, Father. But the language is salty. Did you have any reservations about this?
Father Bart Tolleson:
I was like, where were you watching this? Some sort of foreign country? Where are you?
Cy Kellett:
No sailors or truck covers walked out, but you know what I’m talking about. The language is quite realistic.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
Let’s put it that way. What were your feelings about that?
Father Bart Tolleson:
I mean the ironic thing is Stu worked really hard to clean up his own language and he challenged other guys, especially guys to clean up their language. He had many unusual penances he would give them to help them in their use of language. But hey, living even on a college campus and you walk around town, I can tell you, I’ve heard almost every line you hear uttered in the film, just walking down the street.
Cy Kellett:
Right.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I think the goal was that was not just like, “Oh, let’s just have this profane use of language, but let’s make it real.” Like you’re walking down the street and this is how people are talking. We can identify with that. Especially young people. Yeah, that’s how people talk. Then they’re like, “Well, I can see that guy looks like a real guy to me.” Then all of a sudden he’s like gets serious about faith. I’m like, what? I mean, I thought that was holy rollers that did that. No, this guy was down at the bottom. I mean he beat people up and then he’s all of a sudden coming to God and changes his tune and has this profound charity and gentleness that’s so strong, despite his failing body. It’s just amazing.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. But I wanted to ask you that question, because I feel like there are probably a few people in the world who would be like, “Well, why is the church promoting this movie?” I feel like we have to say something about that. We have to be very strong in our defense of the artists, that they had good reason to do what they did and what they did works beautifully.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah. I would just say the film isn’t for everybody. I mean, there are some people that it will affect their sensibilities and that’s fine. I mean, no one’s going to judge you for that all. I mean, that’s could be a very good thing. I mean, it’s, I tell people, I have a lot of families are like, “Oh, we want to take…” I’m like, this is not the kind of thing you load the kids in the car and take to a Sunday family film. This is a tough film and it’s got some tough things in it. Really the language is tough and that’s the way it is.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Because it was, that was, it was that way for Stu. You have to prepare yourself and it’s not for everybody, but I think a lot of people, even some people I know that normally are very offended by that, really they understood it, once they saw the film and it kind of even made it more beautiful for them, because it’s such a beautiful redemption, transformation conversion.
Cy Kellett:
Both you and Father Stu, then if you were ordained in 2007, you’re becoming priests and you may not have thought of this before Father, I may be the first person to say this to you, at a time when the priesthood was somewhat in disrepute. Am I the first person to have said that to you?
Father Bart Tolleson:
No.
Cy Kellett:
But I mean, do, but this is… Part of this movie I think is a sense that this is really what priests are. Those of us who have lived Catholic lives, we know about those priests who are misbehavers and all that. But for the most part, this is what priests are like, they’re not all saints, but they’re more like Father Stu than they are like the villain that was depicted in the early part of this century.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I hope so. I mean, I know that Stu and I talked before we were ordained about all the scandals in the church and you know how bad it was and Stu’s attitude was, “Look, I’m not like that. You’re not like that. Let’s go make a difference. Not because we’re high and mighty or so much better than everyone else, because we’re just going to be who we are and God’s changing us every day and we’re just going to be who we are as priests for God. Given the grace to live as a priest, we’ll live.” We are not saints. We’re not perfect. Stu good Lord, he was not perfect. No priest is perfect, but we are human. We have weaknesses, we have strengths, we eat, we sleep. It’s a human life that you live for God as a priest.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. Mark Wahlberg said he, we were surprised to hear him say this, he said he hoped the movie would encourage more men to consider a vocation of the priesthood. Is that your hope as well?
Father Bart Tolleson:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s interesting to hear some of my brother priests say, “Hey, I’ve seen the film.” They say, “I think this might put a new face on the priesthood.” It’s kind of surprising to me, because Stu was so one of a kind, but everyone’s really one of a kind.
Cy Kellett:
Right.
Father Bart Tolleson:
No one is beyond the call of God. No young man has beyond the call of God.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah. A new face or maybe the old face, the face that we… Priests have, you remember the Bing Crosby movies, even.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Yeah.
Cy Kellett:
They’re not like this movie, but at least they assumed that God was at work in the life of a priest and the priest was trying. Then we got away from that. But I hope that that’s the case. I’ll propose to you a theory, before I let you go. I do think the priesthood has been so battered and abused and ridiculed and priests have been mocked. I’m sure that you’ve experienced that yourself Father, but Father Stu’s call begins with, is Marian, very much. Mary plays an important part in his call.
Cy Kellett:
Mark Wahlberg told us that Mary played an important part in his making of this movie. She wouldn’t let him stop. I wonder if you have considered this, it seems to me that there’s some aspect of this movie that is so Marian at its depth. The call of the men who made this movie, the people who made this movie is Marian. I think that she wanted this movie made, because she loves priests and she wanted to defend him. She wanted to stick up for him.
Father Bart Tolleson:
I absolutely agree. I would say three things that I think. One is, I certainly think the blessed mother had a huge hand and will continue to have a huge hand. They affected this movie on hearts. She’s calling us to her imaculate heart and she’s loving us more than ever during these days as our heavenly mother. I also think that her son of course wanted this movie to be made, because Stu in so many ways reflected Jesus and in such a unique way. You’d just be thinking, this is the Lord being reflected in this guy.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
In his brokenness and yet in his service and his love. Finally, I think that also Stu wanted this movie made and may have more to do with it than we all realize right now.
Cy Kellett:
Yeah.
Father Bart Tolleson:
It might be surprised along the way.
Cy Kellett:
Father Bart Tolleson, we’re very, very grateful that you took the time for us. We’re grateful for your priesthood and the beautiful way you’ve meditated on it with us. Thank you, very much.
Father Bart Tolleson:
All right. Thanks, Cy.
Cy Kellett:
Father, we usually ask priests this. I probably should have warned you before. Would you mind giving us your blessing and our listeners your blessing as well, before you go.
Father Bart Tolleson:
Certainly. Lord, God in great thanksgiving for these days, though they’re dark, that you are risen from the dead and you bring us hope. Even in suffering, you bring us hope and so may all who are listening right now, be blessed in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Cy Kellett:
Amen. Don’t usually get to do movie reviews around here at Catholic Answers Focus, although we did do one on Enola Holmes a while ago, but this is a movie I really hope you will see. It’s a beautiful movie about a man who really came to an encounter with Christ and was transformed by that encounter and then went out and transformed lots of other people, because of that encounter. It opens Wednesday, April 13th. See it wherever you can.